"Jacked" Lofts in 2020

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Snickerdog

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obedt

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The loft thing is a double edged sword. It is partly due to faster faced irons. Every time you had speed you add spin. It is very hard to have one and not the other. Speed and spin add launch so how do they combat that? They decrease loft. That all makes perfect sense. But, do we need to add speed to the ball off the face of an iron? A club that should be used to promote accuracy and consistency?

That is where i am torn.
This would make an interesting question then - would a player's cb spin less than an equally lofted high tech iron. I've thought that with the higher tech and hotter faces, spin has been something oems have had to manage. It was one of the things Callaway mentioned as an improvement in the Apex 19 over the CF16 - adding back spin because some felt the 16 had gone a little too low for the loft.
 

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I guess at the end of the day, you can hit whatever club a consistent and known distance then it is doing its job and everything else is moot.
 

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Look at those lofts.

I like jacked lofts. I've changed my bag set up to for gapping issues and couldn't be happier.

Play what you like.

For me, #innovateordie
 

J.B. Cobb III

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Don't look at your clubs like this is an 8 iron or this is a 9 iron. Look at them like this is my 150 club and this is my 137 club.
 

Jman

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Hot take on the gaps into wedges:

The real issue is people don’t want to learn how to hit different shots and distances from full to partial swings with their PW.

Don’t @ me. Creativity is dead.
 

radiman

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3 pages in 35 minutes?? Hot topic I suppose.

 

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I don't care, but I do think it's funny that we try to act like it has nothing to do with the fact that picking irons is going to a store and hitting a bunch of 7 irons. IMO the number on the bottom doesn't mean anything to me, knowing how far I hit it means everything.
 

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Hot take on the gaps into wedges:

The real issue is people don’t want to learn how to hit different shots and distances from full to partial swings with their PW.

Don’t @ me. Creativity is dead.
wedge gapping is very hot cake.
 

Canadan

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Jman

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and here you were thinking this was a bad idea.
and @Jman but we all know this will be his fav thread of the week.
I ******* hate this thread.

Ive fought this crap for a decade.
 

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This would make an interesting question then - would a player's cb spin less than an equally lofted high tech iron. I've thought that with the higher tech and hotter faces, spin has been something oems have had to manage. It was one of the things Callaway mentioned as an improvement in the Apex 19 over the CF16 - adding back spin because some felt the 16 had gone a little too low for the loft.
I am not an engineer so I can not complete answer that question. From my understand a lot of it has to do with vertical center of gravity. If say the clubs vertical center of gravity is higher. The ball will spin more, If it is lower. It will spin less.
 

radiman

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I'll say that I was a little apprehensive of lowering lofts on my irons. But, I am fine with a pivot of my set. One less club at the top, one more at the bottom. Should still have everything gapped out alright in theory. Will know more once I can play outside.
 

Canadan

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I ******* hate this thread.

Ive fought this crap for a decade.
I think it's finally time to hunker down with a 10,000 post thread validating the true realities.
 

Canadan

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What amazes me about lofting, is how there can be a genuinely 'stock' loft belief, while all swings are different. Take for example my swing and @OITW. I hit the ball interplanetary, and he hits it fairly low. Why in the world would we play identical lofts expecting the same result?

part of this age of fitting, lofts should be super personal. While I am the anomaly, I don't see anyone worried about the lofts of my irons (which are absolutely strong to stock) when I hit the ball higher than most people I play with.
 

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This will only be an issue if people keep talking about it.

I'm not really concerned with the loft of any club and am only concerned with the distance they go. 20 years ago I thought it was cool to see how far I could hit each club and my scores showed it wasn't getting me anywhere.

I've also carried 4 wedges counting the PW with my set since the 90s which seems to be the advantage of these jacked lofts anyways. @Wildcat4life told me with the Epic Forged he had to go to 5 wedges which sounded like a solid plan once I got past how crazy that sounded.
 

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Isn’t it cool though when they’re hitting that 8i that far with that loft but it’s the same launch and height as the “traditional” 8i loft?
Isn't that impossible? You can't get both the same launch and height and get a much greater distance. Sir Newton is pretty specific on this. Unless that loft angle modifies gravity or the density of air, the club with the greater distance has to have a greater peak height or lower launch.
 

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I am not an engineer so I can not complete answer that question. From my understand a lot of it has to do with vertical center of gravity. If say the clubs vertical center of gravity is higher. The ball will spin more, If it is lower. It will spin less.
It's interesting (to me at least), because you're absolutely right. With the same delivery, in the same iron, more speed will equate to more spin. But I've thought this whole time that due to the construction of these higher tech heads, spin has dropped despite the higher speed they produce.
 

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I do wonder if we get the same launch from an iron that's 3 degrees stronger - certainly can get more height because of the ball speed increase, but the actual launch angle...not sure...
 

JB

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This would make an interesting question then - would a player's cb spin less than an equally lofted high tech iron. I've thought that with the higher tech and hotter faces, spin has been something oems have had to manage. It was one of the things Callaway mentioned as an improvement in the Apex 19 over the CF16 - adding back spin because some felt the 16 had gone a little too low for the loft.
Modern design plays a large role way more than just thin faces. Shifting weight has arguably played even a bigger role. Things like tungsten can dramatically shaft CG and assist in launch angle. Reduction of spin is fairly common as lofts go down, but with weight, a club can actually assist with launch.
 

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Isn't that impossible? You can't get both the same launch and height and get a much greater distance. Sir Newton is pretty specific on this. Unless that loft angle modifies gravity or the density of air, the club with the greater distance has to have a greater peak height or lower launch.
Nope, that’s the main reason the lofts have strengthened. Launch now is greater than “traditional” era loft designs, without decreased lofts they would launch too high and meet ballooning. Companies adjust the lofts to hit specific launch windows.

These irons have more ball speed, more launch, more forgiveness, and thus MUST have lower lofts.

This is always THE flaw in the loft hating argument, it’s ONE part of the flight equation, one, and not even the main one.
 

obedt

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Modern design plays a large role way more than just thin faces. Shifting weight has arguably played even a bigger role. Things like tungsten can dramatically shaft CG and assist in launch angle. Reduction of spin is fairly common as lofts go down, but with weight, a club can actually assist with launch.
This is very enlightening stuff JB. Thanks.
 

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cbaker2882

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Hot take on the gaps into wedges:

The real issue is people don’t want to learn how to hit different shots and distances from full to partial swings with their PW.

Don’t @ me. Creativity is dead.
Correct. And sorry for @-ing.

What amazes me about lofting, is how there can be a genuinely 'stock' loft belief, while all swings are different. Take for example my swing and @OITW. I hit the ball interplanetary, and he hits it fairly low. Why in the world would we play identical lofts expecting the same result?

part of this age of fitting, lofts should be super personal. While I am the anomaly, I don't see anyone worried about the lofts of my irons (which are absolutely strong to stock) when I hit the ball higher than most people I play with.
This is me too. I need lower lofts but would typically prefer the "standard" lengths, as I tend to need lower launch.
 

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