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Patrick Reed and 2 stroke penalty

DG_1234 said:
Sure people can do whatever they want; including mulligans, gimmes, improve lies etc... Whether that behavior is respectful to the game (or even actually playing golf) is a matter of opinion.
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You can do all of those things and enjoy an afternoon on the course. If you want to keep a legit handicap or actually want to play in any form of competitive event, that dog won’t hunt.
 
DG_1234 said:
Thanks for your reply, but I think we can all agree that (no matter what) being outside, playing shots, hanging out with friends etc....is usually an enjoyable experience.
My question is if one compares a round they played honoring the Rules of Golf (tournament competition or not), versus a round where liberties are taken such as mulligans,
improving lies etc... doe he/she get more enjoyment from the Rules-observed round ?
You may have answered this question , not sure.
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Do you think there is an absolute, one-size-fits all answer here?

I can answer for myself, but that’s all.


Personally, I have had just as much fun in a casual round where the rules were loose as I have in a strict round where they are not. I don’t think that’s the answer you want, but that’s my answer

I also don’t think there is one right way to enjoy this game, or any game, nor do I think that my personal experience is universal or that everyone must share my opinion.

If I had to choose one single round of golf I’ve ever played that was the most enjoyable, it would be a 9 hole round I played earlier this year. It was a three person scramble, 3 separate teams. Two teams tied so we played extra holes. It was sunset and the course had emptied out, so the losing team (and a few others) joined us and we had perhaps 15 or so people on the hole... carrying on, drinks in hand, lots of laughs.

Our home course is not in great shape so most guys allow for playing the ball up in the fairway, which we did that day. We played out of turn, improved lies, fluffed the ball up, etc - and we all had a blast, together.

If anyone present at that point had pitched a fit about the rules, we would’ve sent them packing.
 
5150 said:
Do you think there is an absolute, one-size-fits all answer here?

I can answer for myself, but that’s all.


Personally, I have had just as much fun in a casual round where the rules were loose as I have in a strict round where they are not. I don’t think that’s the answer you want, but that’s my answer

I also don’t think there is one right way to enjoy this game, or any game, nor do I think that my personal experience is universal or that everyone must share my opinion.

If I had to choose one single round of golf I’ve ever played that was the most enjoyable, it would be a 9 hole round I played earlier this year. It was a three person scramble, 3 separate teams. Two teams tied so we played extra holes. It was sunset and the course had emptied out, so the losing team (and a few others) joined us and we had perhaps 15 or so people on the hole... carrying on, drinks in hand, lots of laughs.

Our home course is not in great shape so most guys allow for playing the ball up in the fairway, which we did that day. We played out of turn, improved lies, fluffed the ball up, etc - and we all had a blast, together.

If anyone present at that point had pitched a fit about the rules, we would’ve sent them packing.
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If that's agreed upon before hand, then I agree with you 100%. Since you mention you were playing a scramble, we already knew you were playing fast and loose with the RoG.

I think most of us agree that it's a hoot playing with friends/family and having a great time. What I'm getting out of that question is, if you played two rounds (assuming you're walking on as a single in both or playing with the same friends in both so that part of the equation cancels out) one following your strictest interpretation of the RoG where you carded a 78 and one where you fluffed lies, tossed your ball out from behind trees, assumed 5' putts were "good", and pretty much just played fast and loose with the Rules and ended up shooting a 76, when looking back on those two rounds, which do you think you'd derive more satisfaction from?
 
5150 said:
Do you think there is an absolute, one-size-fits all answer here?

I can answer for myself, but that’s all.


Personally, I have had just as much fun in a casual round where the rules were loose as I have in a strict round where they are not. I don’t think that’s the answer you want, but that’s my answer

I also don’t think there is one right way to enjoy this game, or any game, nor do I think that my personal experience is universal or that everyone must share my opinion.

If I had to choose one single round of golf I’ve ever played that was the most enjoyable, it would be a 9 hole round I played earlier this year. It was a three person scramble, 3 separate teams. Two teams tied so we played extra holes. It was sunset and the course had emptied out, so the losing team (and a few others) joined us and we had perhaps 15 or so people on the hole... carrying on, drinks in hand, lots of laughs.

Our home course is not in great shape so most guys allow for playing the ball up in the fairway, which we did that day. We played out of turn, improved lies, fluffed the ball up, etc - and we all had a blast, together.

If anyone present at that point had pitched a fit about the rules, we would’ve sent them packing.
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No, I don't believe there is "an absolute, one-size fits all answer here". What's fun for some may not be fun for others.
That said, since my junior golf days I've observed adults who proclaim a love for the game, and have spent thousands of hours playing golf, yet they seem to have more of a frustrating time than fun time. Mostly they (99% of the people I have met playing golf )never learned or committed to some basic technique fundamentals, so they have little control of their golf ball and rarely strike a proper shot. And adherence to the Rules of the Game is usually, not always, correlated to a players skill level.
So, the one's I've observed that seem to be "having the most fun" playing golf are those focused on playing well, striking good shots, making putts, shooting their best scores, totally into the round of golf, including playing by the Rules.
 
DG_1234 said:
No, I don't believe there is "an absolute, one-size fits all answer here". What's fun for some may not be fun for others.
That said, since my junior golf days I've observed adults who proclaim a love for the game, and have spent thousands of hours playing golf, yet they seem to have more of a frustrating time than fun time. Mostly they (99% of the people I have met playing golf )never learned or committed to some basic technique fundamentals, so they have little control of their golf ball and rarely strike a proper shot. And adherence to the Rules of the Game is usually, not always, correlated to a players skill level.
So, the one's I've observed that seem to be "having the most fun" playing golf are those focused on playing well, striking good shots, making putts, shooting their best scores, totally into the round of golf, including playing by the Rules.
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It seems your equating fun with score and personally I don't think that is fair. For many people fun has nothing to do with score. It has more to do with engaging with others, being outside, and getting away from life. I have a really good friend that plays once or twice a month with 3 of her friends. They have played since college (10+ years) when they worked summers as cart girls. None of them can break 150. Very seldom is a hole played completely from tee to green. Usually they hit until the green clears. Then pick up, drive to the green and putt. I don't know if they could recall one rule of golf, but they can tell you which club has the best transfusions, mimosa's, friendliest staff, and the best looking cart girls (they let me know as their goal is to wife me up). You would be hard pressed to find someone who has as much fun on the golf course as the four of them.

OGputtnfool said:
If that's agreed upon before hand, then I agree with you 100%. Since you mention you were playing a scramble, we already knew you were playing fast and loose with the RoG.
I think most of us agree that it's a hoot playing with friends/family and having a great time. What I'm getting out of that question is, if you played two rounds (assuming you're walking on as a single in both or playing with the same friends in both so that part of the equation cancels out) one following your strictest interpretation of the RoG where you carded a 78 and one where you fluffed lies, tossed your ball out from behind trees, assumed 5' putts were "good", and pretty much just played fast and loose with the Rules and ended up shooting a 76, when looking back on those two rounds, which do you think you'd derive more satisfaction from?
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I agree on the satisfaction part, but do not always feels satisfaction equals enjoyment. Some of my most satisfying rounds have been a grind. Doing everything I can to keep the demons at bay and avoiding the disappointment that comes with letting one slip away. Conversely many of my most enjoyable rounds have been when just chilling on the course. Having fun with the group not worrying about rules or score. Just enjoying the company I was with.
 
OGputtnfool said:
If that's agreed upon before hand, then I agree with you 100%. Since you mention you were playing a scramble, we already knew you were playing fast and loose with the RoG.

I think most of us agree that it's a hoot playing with friends/family and having a great time. What I'm getting out of that question is, if you played two rounds (assuming you're walking on as a single in both or playing with the same friends in both so that part of the equation cancels out) one following your strictest interpretation of the RoG where you carded a 78 and one where you fluffed lies, tossed your ball out from behind trees, assumed 5' putts were "good", and pretty much just played fast and loose with the Rules and ended up shooting a 76, when looking back on those two rounds, which do you think you'd derive more satisfaction from?
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I see your point, and I like how you've clarified the question. That helps me.

Some context for my reply: I went through a few years where I focused in hard on improving my game. At the time I had never broken 100. Took lessons, built a swing, practiced daily, the whole deal. I broke 100 within about 6 months and had my first sub-90 round that first year as well.

I kept it up the second year with the goal of getting my cap into single digits and breaking 80. I met both goals - my lowest cap was in the 7s, and I shot a 78.

My last goal - probably the most pertinent to the question here - was to beat a good friend of mine with whom I've been playing for several years. We play casual rounds, improve lies, etc. It was important to me to beat him straight up, no strokes, and I would play the ball down while he played as he wished. I finally got him, and yes, it was quite satisfying to take the game as it came and still win despite his fluffing lies, etc.

So - when I was in that space, working hard to obtain goals, all that, it was more satisfying for me at that time to win knowing that I had not taken any shortcuts.

Since then I've changed my approach to the game. Frankly I'm not willing to go to the effort to keep my cap that low and shoot in the 70s. I'm not getting any younger, arthritis is a thing now, especially in my left hand, and I can't practice enough to keep my game at that level without pain. With that in mind, I don't take enjoyment or satisfaction out of low scores anymore. I just dig the game, the walk and the company, and if I score, great. If not, that's fine too.
 
DG_1234 said:
No, I don't believe there is "an absolute, one-size fits all answer here". What's fun for some may not be fun for others.
That said, since my junior golf days I've observed adults who proclaim a love for the game, and have spent thousands of hours playing golf, yet they seem to have more of a frustrating time than fun time. Mostly they (99% of the people I have met playing golf )never learned or committed to some basic technique fundamentals, so they have little control of their golf ball and rarely strike a proper shot. And adherence to the Rules of the Game is usually, not always, correlated to a players skill level.
So, the one's I've observed that seem to be "having the most fun" playing golf are those focused on playing well, striking good shots, making putts, shooting their best scores, totally into the round of golf, including playing by the Rules.
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That's fair. I've seen that as well.

As a lifelong musician I've seen that same behavior in other musicians, especially my fellow guitar players, who spend ridiculous amounts of time and money on equipment when what they should do is go hire a competent instructor and get the fundamentals down.

But if they enjoy chasing the newest/latest equipment and hacking away at Freebird in the basement, then why should I be bothered by that? That's their deal. Sure, they could be better, but they don't want it, and that's fine by me.

At the end of the day, whether it's music or golf, I've found that most people just don't want to do the work and would rather take shortcuts or just fumble along.

And I suppose that's why people get mad at Reed - they feel he took a shortcut.
 
Canadan said:
I saw that Koepka laid into him recently as well haha

Dude is having a tough go at cheating and/or moving on from it.
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At first I felt bad for him but after watching the videos and him lying about it, and how obnoxious he was at the President's Cup, he deserves to get criticized plenty.
 
Canadan said:
I saw that Koepka laid into him recently as well haha

Dude is having a tough go at cheating and/or moving on from it.
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Good for Koepka. I'm not his biggest fan, but I'd congratulate anyone who takes a stance against Patrick "the cheating thief" Reed.
 
Canadan said:
Yeah I don't have a problem with it.
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I agree. They should be brought before the public. I am curious though how Reed will respond. Of all the things he is, he is very mentally strong.

Or maybe its completely blind to reality. I am not sure.
 
Patrick Reed who ?
 
Canadan said:
Yeah I don't have a problem with it.
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My only issue with it is the target is too easy. Where were all the cries about cheater when Tiger cheated at the Masters? Sort of admitted it, and nobody said a freaking word.
 
JB said:
My only issue with it is the target is too easy. Where were all the cries about cheater when Tiger cheated at the Masters? Sort of admitted it, and nobody said a freaking word.
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because it's Tiger. They like Tiger.

Are you referring to the drop?
 
Canadan said:
because it's Tiger. They like Tiger.

Are you referring to the drop?
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Yup. He sort of admitted he knew the rule and didn’t care, and nobody said a ******* word.
 
JB said:
Yup. He sort of admitted he knew the rule and didn’t care, and nobody said a ******* word.
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I will have to look this up. I don't remember his saying that or something like that. I do hear people defend him almost to the death over it.
 
@JB

Is this the quote?

“I went back to where I played it from, but went two yards further back and I tried to take two yards off the shot of what I felt I hit,'' Woods said Friday after he signed for a 71, leaving him three shots out of the lead. “And that should land me short of the flag and not have it either hit the flag or skip over the back. I felt that was going to be the right decision to take off four (yards) right there. And I did. It worked out perfectly.''
 
NVGOLFER80 said:
I will have to look this up. I don't remember his saying that or something like that. I do hear people defend him almost to the death over it.
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He didn't say it like that at all. He said very clearly what he did and it seemed like he didn't understand the rule.
 
LICC said:
He didn't say it like that at all. He said very clearly what he did and it seemed like he didn't understand the rule.
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I posted a quote. I am not sure if it is the one JB is talking about or not.

I am of the opinion Tiger cheated knowingly. I would just be surprised to hear him say it.
 
I am a big Tiger critic but he did what he did out in the open with no intent of hiding what he was doing and that's a pretty major difference. His story that he was mistaken may possibly be believed. He was not trying to get away with something nobody would see.

Reed did not shovel away with a camera man standing in front of him and say, gee, I didn't know improving your lie in a waste area was a penalty. At least then you could call him just stupid.

The icing on the cake for me was the shoveling motion toward the crowd at the President's Cup openly mocking the accusation.
 
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