Why is Soft Good?

[Snap Hook]

Without the Harsh there can't be a soft. GI clubs too me in an effort to reduce the harsh feedback has also muted the soft feedback as well. I feel you can either deal with the harsh to experience the soft feedback or feel nothing at all.

 

[Hanks]

ok ok, most things. sorry boss :smile:

Only because its Hanks does this have to be said.

NOT WITH ALL THINGS!

 

[Beowulf]

I personally think it all has to do with the feedback you get when you hit the club.
When I mention that "butter" feel, I'm taking about a club that feels very nice to hit,(good shots, not misses) smooth etc... It has nothing to do with the hit being soft or not, it just has to do with feel.... On the same hand, I don't like a club that has that smooth feel, and will not give feedback on miss hits. I need the feedback, so that I know when it's on the money, and when it's off.

This is the statement that bothers me about "feel'. Don't you get that "feedback" visually? Once you have a bad feel from a mishit, the ball is gone. Nothing you can do about that. Seems to me, you end up overanalyzing every single shot if you play by how the last shot felt. I am with a lot of the other guys about what feel is. I don't want a club that is going to make my hands, wrist, elbows, and shoulder sore from impacting a ball all day.

 

[Beowulf]

I hate that people ruined the word butter for me. Thankfully they don't describe it as bacon because I'd probably have to drown myself.

In melted butter or Bacon Fat?

 

[#Cookie]

Genius Spank - rep added!

 

[flix]

Hmmm... soft like butter

LOL!!!

 

[JConn]

Not about clubs, but I find it interesting when people say how soft their Tour ball feels off the face of the club. The cores are not really soft compared to many other balls. Does a urethane cover somehow translate feel through a pound of metal and a rubber grip? More likely that it's marketing telling people what they feel.

So you are telling me you can't feel the difference when you hit a ProV, Penta, etc. vs. a Top Flight, Snake eyes, etc.? I absolutely don't believe that. To me it feels like hitting a bouncy ball vs. hitting a piece of gravel.

 

[Hawk]

I didn't say that. I said that I found it interesting that people call a Pro V1x soft, when it's anything but soft. The cover may be soft, but that ball (and many other like it) is as firm as it gets in terms of compression/core. That's not a negative statement either. It's just a fact. The e6 is a soft ball, yet many will tell you the exact opposite. I suppose it depends on what your definition of a soft ball is. To me, it would mean a soft core that compresses easily.

So you are telling me you can't feel the difference when you hit a ProV, Penta, etc. vs. a Top Flight, Snake eyes, etc.? I absolutely don't believe that. To me it feels like hitting a bouncy ball vs. hitting a piece of gravel.

 

[JB]

To me, it would mean a soft core that compresses easily.

This has been a battle in the industry forever.
Most consumers get confused between soft and spinny.
They assume a company is talking about cover when they talk about softness, but in reality they are talking about the core.
This is why so many balls are marketed as long and soft. Because they know the consumer believes that soft is about greenside.

 

[Hawk]

Yep. That's what I always thought too. Nike PD Soft, Srixon Soft Feel, etc. Those are soft balls. They won't spin well, though folks will probably tell you they do.

Perfect example is someobody saying how much softer the E5 feels off the club than the E6. Really? Check the numbers on the core and you'll probably see that doesn't make much sense.

This has been a battle in the industry forever.
Most consumers get confused between soft and spinny.
They assume a company is talking about cover when they talk about softness, but in reality they are talking about the core.
This is why so many balls are marketed as long and soft. Because they know the consumer believes that soft is about greenside.

 

[Johnboy12.5]

Why is soft good?

For the last decade so many buzz words have been thrown around about irons and wedges such as buttery, super soft, etc. that I got to thinking about impact and what the sensation is and why it is important.

For the last 3 weeks, I have spent hours talking with club designers, metal experts, R&D folks about this very thing and have come to a few conclusions on this topic, but I want to hear from the people here.

Why is feel so important? It is something that happens for a split second at impact and nothing can be determined on whether or not it has any impact in scores. It is not something you feel before a shot and really after a shot (minus miss feedback of course), but something that is discussed over and over as the determining factor in our club buying.

Feel, as far as a buying factor is a huge part of it. Most, learn at an early age to avoid almost anything that feels unpleasant. Why repeat something that is unpleasant or harsh 40 to 60 times during a round of golf?

Why is soft feel better than hard feel? Yet in other clubs the hardest metals are the most desirable for distance. How much of a role does marketing play in this as a total package? I know we all hate to hear about that from the consumer stand point, but its out there and it affects all of us.

For me, the only hard feeling shot that goes further than a purely struck or soft feeling shot is usually thinned or skulled, and I’d say 80% of the time it does not bring the desired outcome! So the soft feel / pure shot is what gets the job done and therefore it’s what we seek. I don’t think it is as much a marketing thing as it is a learned preference!

We have a perceived feeling before we even hit a club on how its going to feel most of the time. Regardless if we as golfers want to acknowledge it, its out there. If the goal is extremely soft, it could be manipulated to be that way with internal and external "ingredients", yet in the end, us consumers still want what we consider "pure".

Really? I’ve been hitting a lot of irons lately in my search for my next set and I really don’t think I’ve carried any preconceived notions into it. Maybe it’s because I’m using the hibores right now, which should leave me very open minded about swinging anything to get the desired results. But yes, I want a club that will deliver the feeling that I equate to a pure ball strike!

Is it because as one club maker put it, "we need a reason and validation for making the club purchases we make, and logic is not one of them. Therefore we use the term feel to let everybody (including ourselves) know just how great of a purchase we just made". Or is there really something tangible that says we must have this soft impact in our hands and ears to take us to the next level.

Logically we should all spend enough time on lessons & practice to make certain we strike the ball properly to create this soft impact, but what’s the fun in that!??!? Feel is an important part in it for me, as have all of the contact sports I’ve been involved with. With the way the technology of the golf has evolved who’s to say 10 years down the road if it will be as important as it is today?

It has been a fascinating few weeks for me discussing this with the true experts in the industry, and I would love to hear from everybody on the topic.

Cool topic to discuss JB!

 

[m-910]

So am I off in this assumption?

Buttery soft feel is great if you hit the ball perfect....You'll get a harsh feel if you hit the ball off center. So if my beginner irons are very forgiving and I hit it bad, will the harsh feel be less compared hitting it bad with blades? The ball will still travel in the correct direction with beginner irons and the mis-hit will not be as bad.

If you said yes to that one then couldn't you make an argument for more people to use blades so that they learn to hit the ball better and more often on the center of the club face?

For me this is like saying if you can't throw a baseball from first to second base...lets shorten the distance from first to second.

 

[Hawk]

I don't think a club makes you learn anything. Practicing with proper technique makes you learn and that can be done with either type of club.

 

[Spank818]

I don't think a club makes you learn anything. Practicing with proper technique makes you learn and that can be done with either type of club.

I disagree a bit. I think it helps that there is some negative feedback when you mishit a shot. Other than getting lessons and having a trained eye look at your swing, how could one tell if they mishit a shot if the feedback is muted? Now I wouldn't recommend that beginners buy blades but I think for someone who wants to improve his game and be more a consistent ball striker, some sort of feedback is needed. For those that just want to pickup the game and have fun (nothing wrong with that) then the muted feeling is welcomed to further enjoy the game.

I think part of the learning process involves some type of negative feedback. I guess I'm in that camp that doesn't believe in giving ribbons to everyone who participates in a race. I think it makes us complacent and not want to strive to be the best at what we do.

 

[Hawk]

I get negative feedback when I don't hit the ball right. It doesn't go where I wanted it to. It might not be 30 yards short, but it's not in the spot it was supposed to be. I don't really need much more feedback than that.

 

[#Cookie]

I don't think a club makes you learn anything. Practicing with proper technique makes you learn and that can be done with either type of club.

While I agree that proper technique makes you learn, I also feel that the golf club can help with that also. If I am playing a "players iron" and mishit it, I immediately know it by the feel at impact. That instant feedback is valuable to me when I am on the range along with watching ball flight, etc.

 

[JB]

I disagree a bit. I think it helps that there is some negative feedback when you mishit a shot. Other than getting lessons and having a trained eye look at your swing, how could one tell if they mishit a shot if the feedback is muted? Now I wouldn't recommend that beginners buy blades but I think for someone who wants to improve his game and be more a consistent ball striker, some sort of feedback is needed. For those that just want to pickup the game and have fun (nothing wrong with that) then the muted feeling is welcomed to further enjoy the game.

I think part of the learning process involves some type of negative feedback. I guess I'm in that camp that doesn't believe in giving ribbons to everyone who participates in a race. I think it makes us complacent and not want to strive to be the best at what we do.

I think this is a huge misnomer about game improvement irons.
Feedback is there plenty.
If someone cannot tell when they hit a poor shot and good shot based on feel with a GI, they need to examine other factors as well.

 

[Hawk]

While I agree that proper technique makes you learn, I also feel that the golf club can help with that also. If I am playing a "players iron" and mishit it, I immediately know it by the feel at impact. That instant feedback is valuable to me when I am on the range along with watching ball flight, etc.

Please don't take this as being combative, because written words come out differently than they are said. Just having a debate

I don't understand why I'd need anything other than my eyes to tell me I didn't swing the club right. Forgiveness or a club that lacks 'feel' on mishits isn't some magical thing that gives a great result with a bad swing. It just means that you are a bit less offline or short than you would have been, which is a great thing. If forgiving clubs were going to mask all of my swing flaws, I wouldn't be shooting scores in the 90's right now.

 

[Chunkylover77]

I hate that people ruined the word butter for me. Thankfully they don't describe it as bacon because I'd probably have to drown myself.

Bacon should have been ruined for you after the awfulness of the Baco challenge

 

[Hawk]

Bacon should have been ruined for you after the awfulness of the Baco challenge

That's not bacon. It's a mixture of kitty litter imported from California, sawdust, and liquid smoke.

 

[Tmex]

I can easily tell a mishit with my Razr X irons. Not as harsh as the tour but its there. Plus as Hawk said, the ballflight is different or in the water/bushes lol.

I think this is a huge misnomer about game improvement irons.
Feedback is there plenty.
If someone cannot tell when they hit a poor shot and good shot based on feel with a GI, they need to examine other factors as well.

 

[solidkjames]

I think this is a huge misnomer about game improvement irons.
Feedback is there plenty.
If someone cannot tell when they hit a poor shot and good shot based on feel with a GI, they need to examine other factors as well.

Agreed. GI irons just don't shank the ball across the fairways like a blade or players iron. Their technology still tries to remotely hit the ball towards the target without losing as much distance. It's kind of like tennis rackets to an extent, they make heads that are bigger for beginners that gives the best control but less power and small heads for people that want more control and power at the sacrifice of forgiveness. Both do the same thing but it's the amount of talent the person has with the tool that produces the result. Blades have always been about feel but we are seeing more and more pro level players switching to clubs that give that same level of feel but dont absolutely kill their chances on mishits.

 

[#Cookie]

Please don't take this as being combative, because written words come out differently than they are said. Just having a debate

I don't understand why I'd need anything other than my eyes to tell me I didn't swing the club right. Forgiveness or a club that lacks 'feel' on mishits isn't some magical thing that gives a great result with a bad swing. It just means that you are a bit less offline or short than you would have been, which is a great thing. If forgiving clubs were going to mask all of my swing flaws, I wouldn't be shooting scores in the 90's right now.

Oh no - did not take it as being combative whatsoever. We have slightly differing opinions and that's what debates/forums are for!

 

[Chunkylover77]

Only because its Hanks does this have to be said.

NOT WITH ALL THINGS!

The ladies have been letting ole Hanks off easy

 

[#Cookie]

I think this is a huge misnomer about game improvement irons.
Feedback is there plenty.
If someone cannot tell when they hit a poor shot and good shot based on feel with a GI, they need to examine other factors as well.

Since I was agreeing with Spank - I would like to jump in here also. I definitely agree that a GI or SGI does offer feedback. I was just saying that a players iron (since that it what I am about to be testing) offer more feedback in the sense of "harshness" than a GI due to their not having as much forgiveness throughout the club head.