Why is Soft Good?

[cheffor]

In irons particularly, how much of the 'soft' feel is down to the club head itself, and how much to other factors? Change a shaft and/or ball, and you might get different results.

I agree with this statement, I know my personal experience with the razr x and razr x tour irons the shaft I believe was the biggest difference in how the iron felt on mishits. The razr x was very harsh and actually hurt my hand after a few really bad shots while the razr x tour was not, I could tell when I didn't hit it well but my hand didn't come away numb afterwards. Now I don't know the exact manufacturing difference between the 2 heads and maybe the tour is buttery soft compared to it but in my head I attributed the feel to the shaft and not the head itself.

 

[Spank818]

I think this is a huge misnomer about game improvement irons.
Feedback is there plenty.
If someone cannot tell when they hit a poor shot and good shot based on feel with a GI, they need to examine other factors as well.

I understand JB. My response was not if there's enough feedback in a GI compared to x club (I know there's feedback just different levels of it). I was just disagreeing with what Hawk posted earlier about a club not making you learn anything.

 

[JConn]

I didn't say that. I said that I found it interesting that people call a Pro V1x soft, when it's anything but soft. The cover may be soft, but that ball (and many other like it) is as firm as it gets in terms of compression/core. That's not a negative statement either. It's just a fact. The e6 is a soft ball, yet many will tell you the exact opposite. I suppose it depends on what your definition of a soft ball is. To me, it would mean a soft core that compresses easily.

Ok, thanks for the clarification. I guess I misunderstood your first post as to what you were saying.

 

[Goins]

What other word would you use to describe a good feeling shot? Just saying a shot felt good doesn't describe the feel of it like smooth or soft.

 

[Griff]

There was a time when I played more tennis than golf and I can tell you feel is far more important in tennis. If I am on the baseline and want to move in I will attempt to move my opponent one way or the other with pace and ball placement. My racquet immediately lets me know if I hit the shot I intended. If it pops and the feel is close to nothingness I can move in. If I hit it dead I know the ball will go back with less pace and may not go where I intended. I immediately react by holding position knowing I may get a difficult shot in return. It's very reactionary and instinctive. Feel applies to every shot in tennis as you have a pretty good idea what type of shot you hit as soon as you hit it. This is a huge advantage as there is can be little time to set up for your next shot against a skilled opponent.

In golf you hit one shot at a time, the ball isn't coming back to you, and whether or not the shot feels good, it is what is. You immediately know if you crushed your drive, but knowing that will change nothing. I have heard feel builds muscle memory, not so sure about that. I don't think feel has improved my game at all. It's just a sensation that gives you immediate feedback on the quality of strike. Do I want good feel? Heck yeah. Getting a lot of sensory feedback on a shot is gratifying. Nothing more.

 

[JB]

What other word would you use to describe a good feeling shot? Just saying a shot felt good doesn't describe the feel of it like smooth or soft.

I dont know. How do you describe the feel of a good shot with a driver, fairway wood or hybrid?

 

[All4's]

I don't think a club makes you learn anything. Practicing with proper technique makes you learn and that can be done with either type of club.

I disagree. I think you can absolutely hide far more swing flaws with a Ping K15 than a Cobra Pro MB. To be able to play a MB blade you have to learn better mechanics. You can avoid that level of required proficiency with the K15.

I think this is a huge misnomer about game improvement irons.
Feedback is there plenty.
If someone cannot tell when they hit a poor shot and good shot based on feel with a GI, they need to examine other factors as well.

Totally agree JB. While I'll concede different irons offer differing degrees of feedback, I've not come across one that you couldn't sense enough to determine a good shot from bad. Now I've hit GI clubs that you couldn't tell an average shot from a great one, but that is a different thing.

 

[JB]

I disagree. I think you can absolutely hide far more swing flaws with a Ping K15 than a Cobra Pro MB. To be able to play a MB blade you have to learn better mechanics. You can avoid that level of required proficiency with the K15.

Hiding swing flaws and learning proper technique are two very different things in my opinion.

 

[HuskAir]

If I can swing irons and make solid/soft contact... it instills a bit of confidence in my game. If I miss, the results can stem out from there and ruin a round!

 

[All4's]

Hiding swing flaws and learning proper technique are two very different things in my opinion.

Let me say it another, probably better way. I think a club absolutely makes you learn something. How much you have to learn is dictated to some degree by the club design.

 

[Griff]

Seeing some mention that feel can improve the quality of stroke. How? I am not disagreeing, I just don't know how that works.

 

[Goins]

I dont know. How do you describe the feel of a good shot with a driver, fairway wood or hybrid?

Hmm, I certainly wouldn't say soft with either of those. I use the word "solid" when describing a good shot with any wood. Maybe its because an iron is really harsh when struck off center and like has been said soft is the opposite.

 

[Hawk]

How does mishitting a GI club show you less than anything else? The ball doesn't go where you want it to go with either. It's flawed logic. The club does not teach you how to swing it and therefore cannot make you better at swinging it.

 

[smoothduffer]

FEEL is the most overrated reason to purchase/not purchase or like/dislike clubs. I personally have not given any thot to feel when i am testing or thinking of buying a club. It means nothing to me and it has zero affect on the performance of a club.

 

[Mustng5]

I am one that can comment on this, the only benefit that I can see to a club being soft is that it is easier to customize loft and lie angle. Thats it, I have Mizuno MP 68 and Nike VR Pro Combo irons, and I recently ate humble pie, told myself that I dont practice enough to hit blades consistently. Its just a fact. I purchased some Ping G15's and I have been shooting the lowest scores I have ever shot in my life, playing golf for two years and consistently breaking 80 since I switched. AND THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE TO ME THE FEEL from when I hit my blades pure or my Pings. The only difference is on mishits, the blades of course are more harsh feeling to my hands. It was the best decision I ever made for my golf game. IMO

 

[JB]

How does mishitting a GI club show you less than anything else? The ball doesn't go where you want it to go with either. It's flawed logic. The club does not teach you how to swing it and therefore cannot make you better at swinging it.

Its the old argument that swinging something with a smaller "sweetspot" will in turn lead you to hitting the center more often.
Its not logic I subscribe to, but many do evidently.
I think I should switch to a 200cc driver so that I can train myself to hit the sweet spot more often.

 

[Goins]

I agree Hawk it just is more forgiving of bad hits than a blade. You can still tell you mishit it though. I do understand what others mean when you can't tell if you mishit a GI just a little vs when you do the same with a blade.

 

[Ole Gray]

Almost like a snakebite, right gray?

Exactly :thumb:

 

[Hawk]

Its the old argument that swinging something with a smaller "sweetspot" will in turn lead you to hitting the center more often.
Its not logic I subscribe to, but many do evidently.
I think I should switch to a 200cc driver so that I can train myself to hit the sweet spot more often.

I get that there are varying degrees of 'feedback', both visual and sensory. Still, if you show me a club that teaches people how to swing it I'll rightfully call you a freaking genius. It would sell off the shelves.

I feel like it's a way to justify why we play what we play. The fact is, you don't have to justify it. If you like a smaller head & sole, less offset, etc, then great. But making it sound like you have a training aid built into your golf club isn't true in the least bit.

For the record, I did the same thing with the TM CB's. They made me feel like a better player than I was when I hit them. Turns out, they weren't really what was good for my game, so I switched. They certainly didn't teach me a thing about the golf swing.

 

[Danilo]

This is the statement that bothers me about "feel'. Don't you get that "feedback" visually? Once you have a bad feel from a mishit, the ball is gone. Nothing you can do about that. Seems to me, you end up overanalyzing every single shot if you play by how the last shot felt. I am with a lot of the other guys about what feel is. I don't want a club that is going to make my hands, wrist, elbows, and shoulder sore from impacting a ball all day.

Yes, you do get the feedback visually as well, but to me, the first feedback you get is the feel. You can hit a ball a bit off, and you will feel it, before you see it.
You feel the impact, and when you play with a club long enough, you get to know how it feels when it's just right, and when it's slightly off. To me that's a very important part of it. I can't speak for everyone, but it's big for me. I truly like to be able to feel the shot before I see it/hear it and analyze it.

 

[Griff]

I get that there are varying degrees of 'feedback', both visual and sensory. Still, if you show me a club that teaches people how to swing it I'll rightfully call you a freaking genius. It would sell off the shelves.

I feel like it's a way to justify why we play what we play. The fact is, you don't have to justify it. If you like a smaller head & sole, less offset, etc, then great. But making it sound like you have a training aid built into your golf club isn't true in the least bit.

Not sure about that Hawk. This Velocity Slot thingy is teaching me club down quite a bit!

Agree with you guys. Feel comes and goes and when I line up for the next shot the LAST thing I want on my mind is the previous shot. Thinking I will somehow reproduce that sweet nothingness on my last shot by simply willing it to be so is the surest way to set myself up for failure.

 

[All4's]

How does mishitting a GI club show you less than anything else? The ball doesn't go where you want it to go with either. It's flawed logic. The club does not teach you how to swing it and therefore cannot make you better at swinging it.

I am saying that you absolutely have to learn better technique to hit an MB versus a GI. I'm not saying the club is actively teaching you anything. But if you want to consistently hit a 3 iron MB in the air 200 yards, you have to learn how to have a descending angle of attack, hit the ball first, swing on plane, etc. All hallmarks of a better swing. So the club is passively teaching you to do those things to have success.

Its the old argument that swinging something with a smaller "sweetspot" will in turn lead you to hitting the center more often.
Its not logic I subscribe to, but many do evidently.
I think I should switch to a 200cc driver so that I can train myself to hit the sweet spot more often.

I wasn't referring to the old small sweet spot argument. I also disagree with that argument JB.

 

[JB]

I am saying that you absolutely have to learn better technique to hit an MB versus a GI. I'm not saying the club is actively teaching you anything. But if you want to consistently hit a 3 iron MB in the air 200 yards, you have to learn how to have a descending angle of attack, hit the ball first, swing on plane, etc. All hallmarks of a better swing. So the club is passively teaching you to do those things to have success.

Honest question for you. We always hear guys talk about getting irons they can grow into, which I am also not a believer in. Why does nobody ever decide to find a driver to grow into? I mean its the hardest club in the bag to hit for most based on length, why not grow into that?

Proper technique is proper technique. Hitting it on the "button" is the same across the board

 

[Hawk]

I am saying that you absolutely have to learn better technique to hit an MB versus a GI. I'm not saying the club is actively teaching you anything. But if you want to consistently hit a 3 iron MB in the air 200 yards, you have to learn how to have a descending angle of attack, hit the ball first, swing on plane, etc. All hallmarks of a better swing. So the club is passively teaching you to do those things to have success.



I wasn't referring to the old small sweet spot argument. I also disagree with that argument JB.

I would agree you have to be a better ball striker to hit MB's well, but to say that you don't need to be a good ball striker to hit any 3 iron (GI or MB) in the air with accuracy isn't even close to true. You have to hit the ball well to get a good result with any club. The difference is the severity of you miss hits.

 

[Mustng5]

I am saying that you absolutely have to learn better technique to hit an MB versus a GI. I'm not saying the club is actively teaching you anything. But if you want to consistently hit a 3 iron MB in the air 200 yards, you have to learn how to have a descending angle of attack, hit the ball first, swing on plane, etc. All hallmarks of a better swing. So the club is passively teaching you to do those things to have success.


If you dont strike a GI iron 3 iron well its not going 200 yards in the air either, every iron as far as to my knowledge needs to be hit with some kind of descending blow for the ball to get up in the air. You need all those things to hit an iron shot in general. I have played both blades and GI irons, GI irons help, they dont make the game easier for you.