Players with natural talent and self-taught swings

[Mulligan9111]

So as I was reading through the "Bubba - bad for golf?" thread I got to wondering about naturally talented players with self taught swings a little more.

I ask this because I wonder if these players are so naturally talented that they can teach themselves to excel at arguably one of the hardest sports to excel at, would they be able to excel even further with outside help (second set of eyes)? Or do you think that having a swing coach would hinder these talents by "forming" them into a swing?

What are your thoughts?

 

[War Eagle]

When looking at Bubba, you have to wonder if his body will hold up with that swing over the years. As he gets older, some thing will have to change, as the wear and tear on his lower body alone looks like it will be terrible. So, what happens when there is a breakdown and that "self taught" swing doenst do what it used to do?

 

[Canadan]

I think there's always room for improvement.. It's great that he's never had a lesson, but someone somewhere along the line could probably help him, even if it isn't a swing change.

 

[#Cookie]

When looking at Bubba, you have to wonder if his body will hold up with that swing over the years. As he gets older, some thing will have to change, as the wear and tear on his lower body alone looks like it will be terrible. So, what happens when there is a breakdown and that "self taught" swing doenst do what it used to do?

He retires and enjoys the heck out of life.

 

[Mr. Grumpy]

My best guess is that he would have excelled either way, but I agree with WE, something will give and I feel that he will be stranded without help...

 

[Mulligan9111]

I think there's always room for improvement.. It's great that he's never had a lesson, but someone somewhere along the line could probably help him, even if it isn't a swing change.

Ok taking Bubba out of the question here. If you had a player that was naturally talented and self-taught up until high-school golf, would you suggest that he maybe takes on a swing coach that could possibly help him? Like you say, maybe not change his swing, but help him find a way to make his swing more concrete so to speak.

 

[gsaPenny]

I don't know how any golfer makes it without having at least a sounding board person to shoot the breeze with. My best thinking when I was on tour was stinking thinking and I didn't know it until I talked it out. It seems that Bubba must have someone who he conversations with out his thinking on golf and probably life.

My best guess is that he would have excelled either way, but I agree with WE, something will give and I feel that he will be stranded without help...

 

[Canadan]

Ok taking Bubba out of the question here. If you had a player that was naturally talented and self-taught up until high-school golf, would you suggest that he maybe takes on a swing coach that could possibly help him? Like you say, maybe not change his swing, but help him find a way to make his swing more concrete so to speak.

I am a firm believer that those who are self taught can still benefit from lessons. I'd consider them tweaking more than swing changes, but I was self taught up until the age of 24 and benefit greatly from every lesson I take.

 

[Tadashi70]

The self taught player still fires from hip to hip like those that have had formal lessons. They get back and follow through different than traditional players but for the most part they are playing from similar position.
As long as a coach understands that, the self taught player can use the eyes of another.

 

[the_paulo]

I say it depends on the teacher as much as the player in that situation. If you've been self-taught for so long, you'll respond to a certain type of teaching, and the teacher who can adapt your habits and turn them into something better will be difficult to find.

I had my first ever lesson last year. I'd been playing for almost 20 years and playing comfortably off of a 5 handicap. I had 2 lessons and to be honest, it messed with me a bit. At first, I couldn't believe I was doing things so incorrectly, but after recognising all the points the teacher was making, I saw them myself. It took a lot of work, but I'm sure my swing is more solid than it was.

 

[Canadan]

The self taught player still fires from hip to hip like those that have had formal lessons. They get back and follow through different than traditional players but for the most part they are playing from similar position.
As long as a coach understands that, the self taught player can use the eyes of another.

Well said Freddie, basically what I was saying. They don't need someone to teach them how to swing a golf club or how to swing one the right way in my opinion. What they need, is someone who can fix small kinks in their innovative swing in order to better their game.

 

[CharlieMoy]

This is what I need.

Well said Freddie, basically what I was saying. They don't need someone to teach them how to swing a golf club or how to swing one the right way in my opinion. What they need, is someone who can fix small kinks in their innovative swing in order to better their game.

 

[Hawk]

I like the old-style swings. So much variety and many were ugly like mine is. They obviously work a lot better, but it gives me hope that I can hit the ball decently without looking like Adam Scott.

 

[Canadan]

This is what I need.

Hah, don't we all dude.. I've seen and heard about lots of really mediocre lessons where the pro gets caught up teaching fundamentals and the person taking the lesson gets nothing out it.

It kind of frustrates me too. I know everyone has their own way of teaching, but some people just aren't meant to play a normal swing. Bubba and Furyk are prime examples.

 

[Playdough]

I've never had a formal lesson and play off just under a 4 hdc and have never really felt the need to take a lesson. I was taught the basics of the swing from my dad and he let me grow into my own swing. He does sometimes like to interject his toughts or feelings sometimes, but he pretty much leaves me alone. I would say that my swing is pretty normal and that I don't really do anything crazy. I'm not on my toes at impact or have my left wrist bowed at the top like Bubba or DJ. If I see my swing on video, I start thinking about it instead of letting 20+ years of the same basic swing foundation just do its thing. I rode 18 holes at the May Outing with Hanks and we talked about this very subject for a few holes. He was amazed that I had never had a formal lesson and I have no plans to ever take one. I basicly tought myself to hit a draw with my driver as my natural shot shape there was a fade/cut. Now pretty much on demand i can call the shot shape, took me about 6 range sessions of work to do it, but I know my swing and know what it can and can't do. Right now I'm fighting flipping my hands at the bottom of my swing...something that I have never had an issue with before, but a couple of range sessions I'm sure will fix that no problem. I'm a firm believe that coaches are needed for some parts of ones game, if I ever made it, Dave Peltz would be my short game coach as thats the part of the game that holds me back. Dr. Bob Rotella would be my mental coach, but I'm still not sure I would get a swing coach.

 

[jlukes]

This is what I need.

Same here. My golf coach from HS was always boggled by my swing. It's not exactly Furyk-like, but it works for me. I want to take lessons, but I don't want to start from scratch. I want somebody that can take a look at my swing and fine tune it to be more consistent.

 

[JTnumbers]

The only difference between a Self Taught and Mechanical swing is the backswing and follow through. At impact, Most tour players look exactly the same. Look at someone like Rickie Fowler and Ryan Moore with that funky take away. But at impact, they have the same look as Rory and they all hit the ball sweet. I like self taught swings better because you can feel what you are doing wrong 90% of the time (if you're a low handicapper). With a mechanical swing, you're just left guessing out on the course and you start to lose sight of shooting a score.

 

[GrantD]

I played my whole life on a natural swing. I started around the age of 10 an played through high school golf (I never made it in the top 4 of the team) and up to the age of 30. At 30 I was at a 15 hdcp and wanted to get better. I was able to drop to a 12 by just practicing more. Once I started some lessons with Golf Tec and correcting my major swing flaw, casting the club, I was able to drop in to the single digit hdcp I have now. I think natural swing players can play good golf, but they will hit a plateau. I think it is good for golfers to have a pro to go to for swing advice. To make minor tweaks to gain consistency. This is what helped me get to the goal I am at now.

 

[SethO]

I am a firm believer in lessons. Some people can swing naturally well, but most don't get into the right positions to put a good strike on the ball. I do think there needs to come a point where a player owns their own swing though. It would seem that if you do that, then lessons would be more of a tweaking session.

Grant is a great example of the difference lessons can make. He has always been better than me, but the difference in his game after swing and putting lessons has been tremendous. His coach is also really cool.

 

[Canio]

Once I started some lessons with Golf Tec and correcting my major swing flaw, casting the club, I was able to drop in to the single digit hdcp I have now. I think natural swing players can play good golf, but they will hit a plateau. I think it is good for golfers to have a pro to go to for swing advice. To make minor tweaks to gain consistency. This is what helped me get to the goal I am at now.

I agree completely. I also subscribe to the Hogan theory that the swing is in the 'dirt'. Meaning that you must practice in order to improve. BUT you must practice right, not just hitting balls. Hogan practiced with a purpose with each and every ball. It's like playing a piano. You may play by ear very well, but you'll never be able to play better without practice!

 

[RxGus]

I had a self taught swing which was reasonable effective (aka, I could play golf) but would have never had a chance at being good without spending some time with a Pro. I ripped out the things I did poorly and rebuilt a more solid foundation. It's been a long time since I last had a lesson, and my swing is becoming more non-traditional... but the time with the pro helped me set and understanding and a foundation of the swing for me to build on.

I also believe that "self-taught" is a bit of a misnomer. I am going out on a limb, but I think many of the self taught players would agree... at some point someone taught you (or you read, or researched) what a proper swing path was, forward shaft lean, avoid over-the-top, etc. You may have introduced those concepts into your own swing, but the theory behind the swing (at least some part of it) had to come from somewhere.

 

[superhawk]

I still watch instruction DVD's, shows, etc...but I don't try to do it exactly like what I see. Because my body isn't lean and I'm tall and my knees can't do what some say to do. And I only started playing 3 years ago at the age of 40.

The thing I care about is that I make solid contact with the ball and that I let the club do as much of the work as possible. If I try to "kill the ball" it throws my whole swing out but if I "let the ball get in the way" of my swing it amazes me how far the ball goes.

I really only work on fundamentals....grip, stance, posture, etc. Especially my grip. If my grip is not right then nothing works right.

 

[thepete]

I like self taught swings better because you can feel what you are doing wrong 90% of the time (if you're a low handicapper). With a mechanical swing, you're just left guessing out on the course and you start to lose sight of shooting a score.

Sorry, but this is nonsense. Why would a player with a self-taught swing be more inclined to feel what is right and what is wrong than a mechanical player? Mechanical players aren't void of feel and most certainly don't ignore it in their swing process. Secondly, feel is subjective. How many players have we met that say that they (thru feel) experience one thing in their swing and it's not even close to right?

It is not a matter of being self taught vs mechanical (or taught/schooled which is a more fitting description), it's a matter of how you learn (visual, kinesthetic, auditive etc). If you are visual but have a self taught swing you'll be up S¤&%'s Creek if you run into trouble on the course because you can't see what you're doing wrong. I am mechanical and schooled, but I am also kinesthetic (ie I am a feel player).

Feel and mechanics aren't mutually exclusive, just like being self taught doesn't mean you're automatically a 'feel player'.

 

[Mulligan9111]

The only difference between a Self Taught and Mechanical swing is the backswing and follow through. At impact, Most tour players look exactly the same. Look at someone like Rickie Fowler and Ryan Moore with that funky take away. But at impact, they have the same look as Rory and they all hit the ball sweet. I like self taught swings better because you can feel what you are doing wrong 90% of the time (if you're a low handicapper). With a mechanical swing, you're just left guessing out on the course and you start to lose sight of shooting a score.

I would have to disagree with everything you just said. Self-taught swings don't automatically mean you are a feel player and can feel everything you are doing with your swing. At the same time, if you have a "mechanical" swing, it doesn't mean you can't have a feel for what you are doing.

I would also argue that players with a mechanical swing are able to make corrections on the course just as good as self-taught players because they also have an understanding of what is going on with their swing. You don't have to teach yourself to know what is going on with your own swing.

I'm not knocking self-taught players by any means. Some players just don't need somebody else helping them out. But I do feel that all golfers, self-taught or someone who takes lesssons, could benefit from someone else helping them with their swing, whether it's just trying to form some better consistency or something else.