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Official Equipment Pondering Thread

SuperStroke
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Mward said:
Went through his and then read your comment at the very end. It's safe to say most definitely that fitting is incredibly important and just because the shaft may be a regular, that tip might not be necessarily be quite the same. It also means that the quality of fitter is pretty important as well no? At least something where AoA can be properly measured so that someone could see where some areas may need to be softer as well as stiffer throughout the entire shaft (looking at you IFC)
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That is not really what I mean, but to an extent, yes you are correct.
I stand by my thought that universally, "smart" golfers (those on golf forums) overthink their shaft choice. I also believe that they believe it is the root of their ball flight problems, their misses and more. When in reality, none of that is true.
 
JB said:
That is not really what I mean, but to an extent, yes you are correct.
I stand by my thought that universally, "smart" golfers (those on golf forums) overthink their shaft choice. I also believe that they believe it is the root of their ball flight problems, their misses and more. When in reality, none of that is true.
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I am going into my fitting at the Callaway Peformance Center with an open mind completely and whatever they recommend is what I will go with. They are the experts and the numbers dont lie. I may be naive and I may be completely wrong but I am going to put my faith and trust into them.
 
I'll have to pick your brain on this more. The fitting part is so much a science that it interests the heck out of me.
 
DevRickus said:
I am going into my fitting at the Callaway Peformance Center with an open mind completely and whatever they recommend is what I will go with. They are the experts and the numbers dont lie. I may be naive and I may be completely wrong but I am going to put my faith and trust into them.
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Wait till the last possible time you can do it, to get that fitting. You are one that has said they are going to be working on their game quite a bit. Your swing and your movements will change.
 
JB said:
That is not really what I mean, but to an extent, yes you are correct.
I stand by my thought that universally, "smart" golfers (those on golf forums) overthink their shaft choice. I also believe that they believe it is the root of their ball flight problems, their misses and more. When in reality, none of that is true.
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Agreed. I was getting similar numbers with all 2 of the 3 iron shafts I was using at the ECPC - when I was between the final 2, the fitter suggested that it was all about which one felt best to me. There was a clear winner in that regard, so that is the shaft I chose.
 
JB said:
Wait till the last possible time you can do it, to get that fitting. You are one that has said they are going to be working on their game quite a bit. Your swing and your movements will change.
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I have said it before. I am literally waiting until the last minute to have it done because of the reasons you listed above.
 
JB said:
Wait till the last possible time you can do it, to get that fitting. You are one that has said they are going to be working on their game quite a bit. Your swing and your movements will change.
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Huge that you wait, Ricky! Heck when we played in the fall I already noticed how much your swing had changed due to the weightloss by itself. You were flipping you hands much less because you were able to get you hands through the hitting area properly.
 
Enjoying the conversation.
 
Hawk said:
Enjoying the conversation.
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Seriously. I freaking adore this stuff, I love to learn and Josh, this is good stuff IMO. And honestly its something I would love to mess around with.
 
Agreed. I wasn't able to do this test in Des Moines, but I remember many people talking about how eye opening it was.

Personally, I like the heavier weight in an iron shaft, but I don't have a ton of scientific evidence to prove that is the shaft I should be using
 
It's not 100 a perfect test because of the different heads, but even with the SpeedBlade (85g) and TP CB (120g) I didn't see a huge difference in my launch numbers. One was definitely easier to swing though.
 
Jman said:
Seriously. I freaking adore this stuff, I love to learn and Josh, this is good stuff IMO. And honestly its something I would love to mess around with.
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It's like every person is a snowflake. Even with same swing speed and numbers, they get there in completely different ways.
 
I will take it a step further. One of the people testing was a scratch golfer and has a 123 mile SS speed with driver. Clearly plays the X across the board. Had no issue with a single shaft presented in both weight or flex. (these were steel iron shafts). He had his preferences based on feel of course and look and brand (once he knew), but the actual launch monitor data showed no ill effects from any shaft tested. He tested 16 shafts total.
 
JB said:
I will take it a step further. One of the people testing was a scratch golfer and has a 123 mile SS speed with driver. Clearly plays the X across the board. Had no issue with a single shaft presented in both weight or flex. (these were steel iron shafts). He had his preferences based on feel of course and look and brand (once he knew), but the actual launch monitor data showed no ill effects from any shaft tested. He tested 16 shafts total.
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This is good stuff. Really makes one step back and think, I know I've got a lot of preconceived notions as far as what I should play, but this is eye opening as to what I COULD play.
 
My whole thought process on shaft choice is not based in my first few swings when I am fresh, but based on my final swings when I am tired.

I can swing just about any shaft once or twice and put a good swing on it, but playing a full round give me the performance I need for ghetto final stretch.
 
War Eagle said:
My whole thought process on shaft choice is not based in my first few swings when I am fresh, but based on my final swings when I am tired.

I can swing just about any shaft once or twice and put a good swing on it, but playing a full round give me the performance I need for ghetto final stretch.
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Fantastic point. Another way to look at it would be that one should find a shaft that feels great at an "85%" swing, not one that "holds up the best" to a 100% swing.
 
War Eagle said:
My whole thought process on shaft choice is not based in my first few swings when I am fresh, but based on my final swings when I am tired.

I can swing just about any shaft once or twice and put a good swing on it, but playing a full round give me the performance I need for ghetto final stretch.
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I don't know about the ghetto :)alien:) but I agree, it took me a long time to get there though, I could play the CT's and play them well but by the end of the round I was DEAD from the weight. Call me weak, but its the truth.
 
War Eagle said:
My whole thought process on shaft choice is not based in my first few swings when I am fresh, but based on my final swings when I am tired.

I can swing just about any shaft once or twice and put a good swing on it, but playing a full round give me the performance I need for ghetto final stretch.
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All typo jokes aside, I agree fully. If you have endurance and can put the same swing on it on the 18th fairway that you did on the 1st, awesome. If you can't, keep that in mind when you do your fitting.
 
Sorry for the typo. But the ghetto stretch is the toughest part of the course.
 
DevRickus said:
I have said it before. I am literally waiting until the last minute to have it done because of the reasons you listed above.
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You and me both buddy, I want to be putting my best swings on the variety of clubs at the fitting and really see what fits me the best
 
JB,

I'll pass along the results of a blind test I completed 3 winters ago. We used 8 different shafts lines (including venerable ones such as the GD YS-6, Aldila NVS, Aldila NV, Grafalloy Blue) in R through X flexes with a Spiralock connector on a Wishon 919 10.5 driver head. The shafts were spray painted lightly and then coded so only I knew which was which. The testers varied greatly in swingspeed, loading characteristics etc. - most were mid to high handicappers but we also included our teaching pros and several of the best local amateurs and a dozen collegiate players. All swings were recorded on Trackman and also on video. Prior to the test, each player went through a Mizuno Optimizer fitting as well (I was testing the Mizuno results versus what I was seeing on Trackman and video).

What I witnessed supports your general statement when it comes to golfers with early to mid releases. Not one of them (45 total in that category) could reliably discern the different flexes or even the different shaft types (stiff tip versus low kick for example). Almost none of them showed significant differences in launch, spin, etc. on Trackman between R and X flexes*.

However, almost all the golfers with a late release (19 total in that category) could reliably identify shafts - but not by flex, but by design. In most cases, they defined the X and S shafts as shafts with a stiff tip. So the Graf Blue R flex was always labeled as either a stiff or an X while the NVS X usually was classed as an R flex. By and large, this group preferred the feel of a stiff tip shaft and the differences were notable on Trackman. However there were some very smooth tempoed players here and they did worse with the stiff tip. I was able to affect launch and spin numbers to a much greater degree with this group by changing shafts.

As for my *, there were a few in the early to mid release group who showed significant spin/launch/dispersion numbers when I changed shafts. The underlying issue was feel; if the shaft did not feel good to them, it tended to cause some changes in the swing (usually overswinging in order to feel it "load"). A couple, however, liked the tip stiff and tended to get worse with "looser" shafts.

My takeaway as a fitter has been to look at the Trackman numbers first for the late release players and then try to nail the feel. For others, I still monitor Trackman but I am asking more about feel right out of the gate.
JB said:
It gets people upset so I tend to stay away, but in a nutshell, I believe that amateur golfers believe a shaft will fix their issues. And based on our blind testing, most could not tell the difference in not only weight of the shaft during the swing, but brand or flex.

Its not something to debate, but we witnessed it along with many other THPers at multiple tour van events with blind testing (labels removed) and not a single person could tell what was what and almost EVERY single person preferred the shaft that was softer in flex when they did not know what flex they were testing.

I have data on 39 people ranging from scratch to 24 handicaps. Its eye opening, but people on the internet (not just THP) get very upset it seems with this kind of info. Its the reason I dont discuss too much about the science behind clubs, or actual data anymore. It always comes down to the argument of "I know what i like mentally" and "I know what I like to feel". Regardless of actual science, data or anything else. It took me 5 years, but I have learned to just not talk about it.

Instead I present info, correct wrong info and then back away.
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This thread has been phenomenal. Golf clap to all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Pondering what Bertha is going to be like today with the Red-Tie.
 
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