Drivers - Hype vs Reality

[JB]

I have been thinking a lot about marketing recently and wanted to have a good debate and topic on marketing and hype. Lets keep flaming and attacks out of this please.

Honest question here. How much does marketing and hype play a role in the driver that you are playing? Would the R11, RAZR Hawk and/or 910 be so sought after if they were being put out by other brands?

If another brand put out these clubs would they be as sought after? Lets look at it another way, if Crackomatic were to put out an all black face with all the adjustability in it, plus have a nice good standard shaft offering and feature good performance, would anybody be talking about it?

There are really both sides to the equation here that make sense to me in that many of these companies do have and put more into R&D than others and are innovative while others are always just one step behind. Then there are those that say driver technology maxed out a few years ago and now its all gimmicks. Lets have a civilized conversation about both sides if we can and please do give us your honest thoughts and opinions.

 

[Wicked Cool Bearded Man]

I would say marketing didn't play a role in my purchase. I demoed several and the numbers were the best with PING. At the same time... I have demoed the R11 because of marketing. So it DID influence me in that regard.

 

[Dirt_Guy]

Brand awareness is huge! The majority of the amateur golfers only know the big box brands and won't stray often because they probably feel that the lesser known brands are inferior. I know I've had my eyes opened since being on this forum of many smaller companies that put out quality products. I have bought from hype before and learned my lesson that there is no magical wand to make everything better. Now I make sure that something is truely better before it earns a spot in my bag.

 

[ddec]

I think marketing is everything. Like it was asked yesterday, look at the Cobra S3. It has adjustability and has the Blur shaft as a stock shaft, but the shaft gets dumped on for the S3 and is praised in the R11. If I recall in your testing JB, for drivers that were swung 100MPH the Wilson Staff was one of the best drivers out there, statistically. However I don't see a whole lot of hype for that driver.

I play the SuperTri right now, and I purchased that after the outing where I hit pretty much everything out there. It gave me great numbers.

 

[Hanks]

I don't beleive there'd be as much attention or demand the drivers or their technology were being put out by a 'lesser brand.' Across all aspects of life, we are influenced (rightly and wrongly) by media and marketing. Co's know this or they wouldn't spend millions of dollars on market research, consumer testing, etc trying to get ahead of the curve and trying to figure out what's hot before it's even warm.

I think the battle that will be had in golfers heads (particularly in the older generations) is more along the lines of 'is all of this new technology really that or is it really just a gimmick.? This is where they will rely on marketing to help guide their decisions. The ones who don't try out the new technology will be missing out and won't have an informed opinion when looking at their next equipment purchase and will bypass a lot of cool clubs. Kinda like hiding behind a tree in the forest....yeah you're safe but you also can't see half the forest

 

[lcsmrtn]

If a non major OEM releases the R11, it wouldn't have caught on. It may have caught on as a cult favorite for a small group of people but it would never catch on the mainstream. Look at the pros bags, and go take a look at your local course, you'll see a lot of similar clubs. Everyone wants to be the first person to get their hands on the newest popular club. Just like everyone wants a piece of the latest fashion. Major companies set the trend via their huge marketing budgets and their endorsements and the masses follow suit, either by being lazy and not doing their research or for lack of knowledge.

That being said, new drivers aren't just hype, I do think they'll help the average golfer if they're willing to research their information (THP being a great place to start) and not just think if it's good enough for Tiger, Phil or DJ it's good enough for me. The interview with John Hoeflich did a great job of showing that.

Golf is like anything else, there are people that want to improve and do as well as they can and there are other people who are more concerned about appearances and being cool.

 

[JB]

The interview with John Hoeflich did a great job of showing that.

Good point, because it was a conversation with him the other day that spurred this. He spoke about what goes into R&D and that things are still being done to improve clubs for players. He also spoke in DETAIL about social credit and why many golfers do what they do.

 

[Puttin4Bird]

I think marketing and product placement (PGA Tour usage) are the two biggest things that drive up sales for equipment, especially drivers. The other side of the argument is name recognition as well, if there was a company called Crackomatic and they made drivers and came out with a club just like an R11 nobody would buy it because they don't have the name recognition that TaylorMade does. Look at companies like Adams or Cobra, they have drivers out that for many people will be every bit as good or better than an R11 or Razr Hawk yet because these companies do not have the marketing machine that "the big 3" have they're not going to sell as many drivers.

There's never going to be a time that ever golf consumer just checks ego and brand recognition at the door and simply plays the driver that works best for them purely based on their own testing, not going to happen. These guys watching golf on TV see the big 3 in the hands of the world's best players then 5 minutes later they see a commercial for that club and boom, they're in their car on the way to the golf store to get fit "for one of those 3 drivers" period. They'll come home and say, hey I got the driver that fit my game best.....really? You tested 3 drivers, there's no way in hell you know that matter of fact that is the best driver for you. Out of those 3 maybe yes, but that's the marketing that has us thinking that way.

 

[Hanks]

With a sport based so heavily on this...will there ever be a change or will marketing always rule over >80% of the golfing public then?

Good point, because it was a conversation with him the other day that spurred this. He spoke about what goes into R&D and that things are still being done to improve clubs for players. He also spoke in DETAIL about social credit and why many golfers do what they do.

 

[blugold]

Marketing is huge, but it isn't the most important. Availability in the marketplace is bigger. There is a reason why I don't play Bridgestone, Exotics by Tour Edge, or Srixon clubs. I can't find them to try. I may have seen a print add for the J38 driver, I may have heard some fantastic reviews of the Z-Star driver. I have read the hotlist reviews of the Tour Edge Driver. But I can't find them in stores. I can't get a club into my hand. I may see an ad, I may hear fantastic reviews. But I need to hit the club. Crackomatic may make the best driver in the history of forever, but unless it is a proshop near me, I am never going to see it much less try it and then buy it.

 

[CraftyLefty]

I would say brand awareness was a part of my driver purchase. I had been playing an older cobra model prior to my purchase of my current driver (now it's an older model). I was comfortable with cobra in the past but hadn't really played anything else and cobra had always had some LH drivers in the racks and the local golf shops. I tried to game a TaylorMade R9 last summer but didn't like the shaft so I sold it back and bought my cobra. All of the hype seems somewhat overblown. Looking back I wish I would have gotten fit for my driver/woods and played them without thinking about the brand I was gaming. That's what I have done with my irons this year.

I guess there's always next year!

 

[the_paulo]

I would say marketing didn't play a role in my purchase. I demoed several and the numbers were the best with PING. At the same time... I have demoed the R11 because of marketing. So it DID influence me in that regard.

I'd say to you that, while you made the most balanced judgement available to you at the time....marketing still played a part in your purchase. I'm sure you didn't have a full range of drivers available to test, so marketing pushed you towards a certain group.

There are really both sides to the equation here that make sense to me in that many of these companies do have and put more into R&D than others and are innovative while others are always just one step behind.

It's a double edged sword for a few companies. R&D spend is a lot easier for a company who know they'll be able to shift numbers. It's a dangerous game to get into for a smaller company, when the outlay isn't guaranteed to be returned in sales. I imagine that the driver market is very difficult to make a dent in, unless you're in the top 5 or so companies. This leads me to the scary thought that maybe, it's possible that these companies could squeeze the market in terms of marketing over innovation.

 

[GrantD]

I think Marketing plays a huge role in the picks of most consumers. Look at the coveted "Hot List". This right here is where most consumers make their decisions. They sometimes don't even hit the driver and just buy it because Golf Digest said it was the best.

I was at a demo day last week and there were the following vendor tents there: Taylormade, Titleist, Nike, Wilson, Cobra. Can you guess which tent didn't have a single soul checking out the clubs? The Wilson tent. The rep there looked so lonely and nobody wanted to hit his clubs. I went an hit the D11 just because of THP. If it was not for THP, I would have just walked by just like everybody else out there.

So I do think Marketing makes a huge difference to the average consumer. To the THP consumer, not so much. Most active members on here are very curious about new products that will help their game. They are willing to try anything to make their games better. This prevails over marketing most of the time, sometimes Marketing still wins.

 

[TC]

I'm a huge sucker for marketing, but I also know what I'm getting myself into. I respect marketing and I respect that a company like Taylormade, puts a white driver in their tour players hands, and the masses show up at midnight to get their hands on what the pro's play. That being said, I'm also a realist, and I won't put something in my bag unless it flat out works for me. At times I can be narrow minded but I really try to be as fair as possible. It is difficult for me to get my hands on some other offerings so a lot of times, availability rules over anything else.

 

[lcsmrtn]

Marketing is huge, but it isn't the most important. Availability in the marketplace is bigger. There is a reason why I don't play Bridgestone, Exotics by Tour Edge, or Srixon clubs. I can't find them to try. I may have seen a print add for the J38 driver, I may have heard some fantastic reviews of the Z-Star driver. I have read the hotlist reviews of the Tour Edge Driver. But I can't find them in stores.

That's an excellent point, but marketing and availability go hand in hand. More budget, more advertising = more demand.

 

[Tmex]

Marketing from all aspects and not just from the manufacturers is key too. I mean if THP featured a company like the Crankomatic example, and they performed.. I'm sure that would generate interest. But I think some people confuse marketing as a bad thing when usually it's not. I think it gets to be a problem when false claims are made.

I also think we have a responsibility as consumer with making sure we understand the product and not to further push the misconceptions that may be out there. DDec brought up a great point about the S3 and R11. Hell I feel into the trap and was like, I can't stand the Blur blah blah. Now you'll probably see an R11 soon. Ill admit, the reviews have really began taking their toll on my resolve lol. That's the power of the written word.

We just have to make sure as consumers to really be honest with ourselves when it comes to equipment. That's what it boils down too. All of these drivers have the strong suits and I would think in most cases you could find a combo of head/shaft that works for you. I really think it's come to a point where most drivers out are just really strong drivers.

 

[c_ault]

I think certain companies not only put a lot of money into R&D but into marketing. They also tend to get better press by the majority of media outlets than some other companies. Not to mention the shelf space that some brands get compared to others. The R11, RAZR Hawk and/or 910 would not be as sought after if they weren't a major brand sine they'd get less press and shelf space.

As for the gimmick aspect, I don't think that drivers have maxed out yet, but they are coming close. This is just how it is considering the rules of golf when it comes to the driver. I think that all of the adjustability of drivers is somewhat gimmicky although looking at the benefits of the R11 is somewhat changing my mind. When it comes to the R11 the adjustability allows less stock on hand in the stores while still allowing dialing in a driver for the customer.

 

[JB]

That's an excellent point, but marketing and availability go hand in hand. More budget, more advertising = more demand.

I agree. The part about not being in stores is a direct result of purchasing power.

I also think brand loyalty plays a role in this.

 

[SprayTech]

I feel the same way , Marketing plays a big role , but its kind of like the days of old in racing , what won on Sunday , Sold on Monday .
I think this still holds true in golf . Bought many a sets from Freddy winning with the Paralax Black Cats , and when Phil won with Yonex .

 

[StupidLester]

Its all really a give and take.

look at the R11...Brilliant marketing tons of money spent on it they must sell a lot of drivers to make it work. Then take the Zstar.....Great club a lot like the R11 and the same price. Not marketed very much that I know of. Srixon has taken a chance that without the hype they can make as much money selling less clubs without paying so much in marketing.

I truly believe if a small company came out with a revolutionary club that was somehow superior to anything else it would catch on and sell without paid for hype.

 

[RxGus]

While I don't think that technology has been maxed out, I think we are getting close and that the change from year to year is becoming less and less obvious. Until (if?) the USGA relaxes their COR regulations I doubt we will see any significant, ground breaking, change in driver technology. We can add "options" like MWT, AST, etc to the clubs but technology that makes a club a club (hitting the ball) seems to remain fairly consistent. The big change now is decreasing weight to increase clubhead speed.

What is changing (and allowing people to continue to see distance increases) is FITTING the clubs to us. We will continue to see drivers with different characteristics (high spin/low launch, slow spin/high launch) that will help certain golfers get ideal numbers.

 

[JB]

Its all really a give and take.

look at the R11...Brilliant marketing tons of money spent on it they must sell a lot of drivers to make it work. Then take the Zstar.....Great club a lot like the R11 and the same price. Not marketed very much that I know of. Srixon has taken a chance that without the hype they can make as much money selling less clubs without paying so much in marketing.

I truly believe if a small company came out with a revolutionary club that was somehow superior to anything else it would catch on and sell without paid for hype.

Keep in mind that if you go overseas, it is the exact opposite, hence the reason that SRI purchased a US company as well.

 

[StupidLester]

Keep in mind that if you go overseas, it is the exact opposite, hence the reason that SRI purchased a US company as well.

Yeah almost added that about the Srixon drivers being big in Japan.....

 

[staticline]

Marketing in golf is HUGE! It drives everything. Regardless of how good the Crackamatic is, it will not sell if it's not seen in a tour players hands. It won't sell if it's not in a commercial during a PGATour event.

I played a clone in the early 90's of the Callaway Big Bertha driver. But, it had a Harrison shaft in it. It was a great driver. The only reason I played was because my Dad gave it to me to try out. I wouldn't have gone into a golf shop looking for a clone or a no name.

Marketing is why your driver cost $300, your putter costs $200 and your wedge is $100. Think about the ads you see. I bet the ratio of Driver-to-Putter-to-Wedge ads is 3-2-1. But, there's no way a driver cost 3x more to make than a wedge.

 

[ohio_striker]

marketing plays more of a role then anything if people dont see pro's using it they are not going to be drawn to it. just look at the increased buzz over adams drivers since Jamie Sadlowski started using compaired to when he wasnt.