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Recap & Review - 2015 THP Legacy

SuperStroke
jlukes said:
My opinion is yes. They are more focused. Even the grandaddy, for as big of an event as it is, is very focused. Events like Bridgestone U, personal distance, handcrafted, own the second shot, and even the old Ultimate testing events had a really nice focus to them. Up and down with Cleveland also seems like an event is very focused. The Gauntlet, while at the surface seems like a bunch of people playing competition golf,actually has a real great focus with the Md3/roger Cleveland piece.

I think you and JB are doing the right thing here by having and honest and open 'lessons learned' session. It's what any good company does. If a company doesn't learn from both their successes AND failures, then that company will never truly progress.
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On that note though it needs to be a mix and it is a tough balancing act. Some of those extremely focused events because they are so focused many people won't even click on the thread. Where like you said the legacy had some interest in the Team aspect. It is tough but I think a balance between ultra focused and building another reason for people to click other than that focus.

I bet the amount of people that actually follow all the events you listed and all events for that matter is FAR fewer than people think.

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JB said:
Ill be honest here Dan, we did that previously, and it did not kick off all that well.
Based on the previous responses in threads about using equipment, I did not really think it was necessary, but as I told you, that will be ammended in some form when needed. However to be honest, this is not necessarily about "do you need to continue playing" as we have covered that.

This was simply a question I got, and answered, and thought I should pose it here as well. I believe you personally saw first hand the questions that we get, and answer, and always will truthfully.

The entire point was to get the thoughts of those in the event, rather than just behind the event, but I am second guessing myself on whether that this was a good idea now.
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I hear you. I get wrapped up in a rather large history of disappointment as it relates to events of that nature and end up posting because of it. I'll leave it be to the guys fortunate enough to participate.
 
lightningbolt44 said:
On that note though it needs to be a mix and it is a tough balancing act. Some of those extremely focused events because they are so focused many people won't even click on the thread. Where like you said the legacy had some interest in the Team aspect. It is tough but I think a balance between ultra focused and building another reason for people to click other than that focus.

I bet the amount of people that actually follow all the events you listed and all events for that matter is FAR fewer than people think.

Posted just for Dev using Tapatalk
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This is definitely why the question is geared towards post event. Because I think that the event thread itself is insignifcant after the fact to this specific question and more about review threads (regardless of category of product). I also think non-forum members (and there are literally hundreds of thousands) read review threads, but are not going to dive into an event recap thread.
 
I think for initial short term buzz the more intimate events are better but I think the larger events offer more long term.

I guess I also dont know what a companies expectations are for ROI from an event. Is it just short term sales, buzz, long term effect? Are they looking directly at it like this event is costing us x and we need to see a direct correlation between our investment and our return from this one event?

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I think it's hard for me to say as a participant, because I was so excited to get my gear, it didn't matter to ME whether it was new or pre-release. The THP community may or may not be more engaged depending on whether or not they are already familiar with the equipment the participants receive.
 
greggdrews said:
I think for initial short term buzz the more intimate events are better but I think the larger events offer more long term.

I guess I also dont know what a companies expectations are for ROI from an event. Is it just short term sales, buzz, long term effect? Are they looking directly at it like this event is costing us x and we need to see a direct correlation between our investment and our return from this one event?

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I cant answer that specifically, but in my opinion, no company would be looking at something like this for short term sales.
 
lightningbolt44 said:
On that note though it needs to be a mix and it is a tough balancing act. Some of those extremely focused events because they are so focused many people won't even click on the thread. Where like you said the legacy had some interest in the Team aspect. It is tough but I think a balance between ultra focused and building another reason for people to click other than that focus.

I bet the amount of people that actually follow all the events you listed and all events for that matter is FAR fewer than people think.

Posted just for Dev using Tapatalk
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But the events I mentioned had a focus on equipment,and for the most part, new or unreleased equipment. From an OEM perspective, those events are great ways to get initial buzz going about equipment.

Let's be honest here. For the OEMs, it's about the equipment and exposure, no so much the teams or the results.

If three months from now, if we are all still talking about the matches played, but not talking about the equipment at all, does that really help the OEM at all?
 
JB said:
This is definitely why the question is geared towards post event. Because I think that the event thread itself is insignifcant after the fact to this specific question and more about review threads (regardless of category of product). I also think non-forum members (and there are literally hundreds of thousands) read review threads, but are not going to dive into an event recap thread.
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This. Exactly this.
 
Hey guys, just want to say thanks for the candid conversation and your feedback has been much appreciated.
 
I've played 7 post legacy rounds. I've explained my Bridgestone clubs to atleast 21 total strangers on the course, most of whose initial response was they didn't even know Bridgestone made clubs. So that in and of itself probably has some value. Whether it's worth the true cost of the clubs themselves, it not for me to answer.

A bunch of those people also held the clubs, commented on the grips, and I know for certain atleast on person bought 13 new UTX because he liked them on mine.
 
Recap & Review - 2015 THP Legacy

Recap & Review - 2015 THP Legacy

I feel very guilty and feel I've failed......and I really don't like that feeling
 
T2GRN18 said:
I feel very guilty and feel I've failed......and I really don't like that feeling
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Kev you have absolutely no reason to feel like that.
 
jlukes said:
Dude this isn't about you. Relax
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I know it's not about Me, but we all have to take ownership in what WE have here.
 
T2GRN18 said:
I know it's not about Me, but we all have to take ownership in what WE have here.
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I really appreciate what you are trying to do, but it's not about taking ownership, because there is no accusation or finger pointing. It's a genuine question from a business standpoint, and I realize now that we shouldn't have asked it. As I said before, it's a tough question to explain, and I realize we were trying to get people to think of this from a business perspective, but it's really hard, especially as a participant, to look at it any way other than from a personal perspective.

I think it's time we move on because we are just going to end up going in circles. Thanks to everyone for your feedback, we sincerely appreciate it.
 
I guess I'm just to sensitIve to the "family". A business side of the equation is very hard for me to get to because I'm emotionally charged to the feel good side. My bad :)
 
Missed this today but ill chime in.

Firat off ROI is typically involves an intrinsic value that can be measured. So in this case it would be did the amount of sales of the products both companies featured in this event exceed the cost of the event that both Wilson and Bridgestone incurred by being involved divided by the costs again.
In this situation i dont know that ROI can be measured in this sense. Is it a positive number. ..maybe.

If the companies ROI is centered around additional exposure i think the answer is yes as their names and gear were out there more than they would normally be. Is that the case post event...maybe a little bit but probably not a ton.
Could there have been more exposure before the event....absolutely. there wasn't a ton of social media interaction and im not sure that was ever expected. The event itself on the site had it moments as far as discussion and forum excitement but as history has shown once the teams are set most members "check out" and move on to the next event or one of the others going on (not saying there is anything wrong with it).

Not sure where im going with this lol. If its an event that is coming back id be curious to hear the thoughts from the companies so that their concerns or displeasure could be improved upon for the next go around.
 
If a company like WS feels they aren't getting the right amount of return on investment with Legacy then I really want to know what their expectations were. There's so much more WS talk now than ever before, so many more people have some sort of WS gear in their bags and they are talking about it where as before it may not have been "cool" to admit to playing the Duo or one of their wedges or whatever. And yes I think personal distance was the start of that but Legacy is what drove Wilson as a major player in equipment to thpers
 
Personally I've explained the event to at least 15 other people, and had many comments about my clubs. Several guys in my skins group have swung my irons, wedges and driver, all with positive words. Not sure if positive enough to kick out their gamers, but my w/s clubs have replaced my gamers. I may alternate drivers but honestly I love all my clubs. Hell I even putt better than I did with my Scotty.

I do agree with a comment I saw earlier though, more clear expectations from the OEMs before an event would help IMO. If you made that know beforehand participants would know what's expected, wether it's tweets or reviews or time, etc. it's completely understandable most won't care about an event they're not in. Honestly with legacy I think the majority, at least guys on my team, sent out multiple tweets to all the sponsors without a ton of interaction back. Little interaction back actually.


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I know we have wrapped up this discussion but I couldn't tell you how many people I have told about this event and they had no clue Beidgestone made clubs. In that respect I hope to be a good brand ambassador so that someone who had no clue about Bridgestone may now at least give them a look. I think most of us are planning on keeping our clubs in play and adding to each clubs respective thread when appropriate.
 
In my mind, there are primarily two ways a company can use social exposure on a place like THP.

First, they can use sites like THP to promote new stuff. That's events like Personal Distance, or Great Big Bertha week, or the UST event, or the upcoming Wilson prototype event. Those events are about a new product and generating as much buzz as possible. I know there are a bunch of people who got excited about swinging D200 drivers because of the Personal Distance event and I'm sure it got Wilson's name out as a good driver maker. Especially when they were able to fit a "game improvement" driver to all those different swing styles--it's a unique opportunity to prove the driver is solid, you just need the right shaft. I think the same thing will happen with the new prototype irons--hopefully those guys are getting a full-on shaft fitting and whatever irons they get end up proving they can work for a wide range of golfers.

The second way companies can use sites like THP is basically for PR purposes. Effectively it's a way to say "look how cool we are, we help put on really special events and hook people up with amazing gear". That's for events like Legacy, Morgan Cup, and the Granddaddy. Those don't necessarily convert to sales in a direct sense like a specific product event, but what it does is create evangelists. Companies like Wilson get guys like me who rock a Wilson cap and a full set of Wilson clubs every time they play golf, and can't shut up to their friends and random people they get paired with for rounds about how cool it was that a gear company partnered with a website to put on an event and basically opened their catalog and said "choose anything you like". That's something that isn't necessarily visible in quarterly earnings or even on the forums here, but it's something that gets the name out. Maybe a guy goes to PGA SS to try out the new GBB, and decides to swing the D200 while he's at it. Maybe he buys one, maybe he buys the other, but he gives Wilson a try because some guy he met was talking them up. Enough of that, and Wilson gets their name back as a top-tier clubmaker, even if their sales don't rival Callaway or TMAG.

There's one other thing I wanted to touch on from a few pages back:

GolferGal said:
I think the heart of the question is getting lost. We aren't asking what each participant personally did, and we aren't asking about what happened leading up to or even at the event. We are asking about what has happened after the event. Put yourselves in the shoes of the company, do you (as the company) feel you got your return on investment?

Don't think of this as a what I did, but think of it more the group as a whole. It's a tough question to explain, and I know it's a question that is so easy to take personal and possibly even get offended or feel attacked and I can assure you that is in no way the purpose or meaning behind the question.
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I think the reason people are having problem understanding the question is because there is no THP without you and JB, but there is also no THP without all of us members. It's impossible to talk about THP as a group (whether on the whole or event participants) without talking about the individuals. The return a company gets from an event is exactly the sum of what each individual gives back for that investment.
 
I wasn't sure I was going to answer the question, since it appeared to be withdrawn, but I have certainly been thinking about it for the past couple of days. All that keeps popping up in my head is some conversation on THP related to the value of advertising in NASCAR (I believe the thread was actually the caddies lawsuit against the PGA). I recall someone posting that it was incredibly expensive to have a dominant ad spot on a NASCAR. That person also mentioned (as did others) that there is no way to measure the return on investment. As was mentioned in that thread, it's impossible to tell how many people went out and bought a jug of Tide because it was plastered on the hood of a NASCAR.

I think that is actually quite useful in this context. What do these companies get post-legacy (or similar event)? It is nothing that can be measured. It really is impossible to tell how many people buy W/S or Bridgestone clubs after they read the Legacy thread, or the respective equipment threads. Sure, some will post in the equipment threads that they just bought a driver/wedge/irons/etc. But as previously noted, there are thousands upon thousands of non-members (guests) who read the equipment threads, but never make a single post. How can you tell if those people bought a club because of what they read on this forum? You can't.

So what does an OEM get? Why should an OEM give, at least in this case, 14 clubs, a bag, and some other sweet swag? For sure, they get 8+ brand ambassadors. They get that many more people to post in the equipment threads, and in particular, to answer questions posed by others in the equipment threads. That's what they get post-event on THP specifically. Others have touched on the benefit out on the course, talking to other people, repping the brand, sharing your memories of how this OEM gave you something few will ever get to experience.

As to why they should do it? Again, I go back to the NASCAR example. It's hard to tell why someone would pay an extraordinary amount of money to put Tide on the hood. But I assume they keep doing it for the chance that some young kid will be doing laundry for the first time, and when in the store to get laundry detergent, picks up Tide, simply because he saw the logo that many times while watching NASCAR. It's kind of like politics. Sometimes (or more times than I care to admit), simple name recognition does more to obtain votes than actual performance.

What the OEMs get is indirect advertising. They get the possibility that people will, at some point, pick up a set of their clubs because that person read what the Legacy people had to say about it. And I think that outside of blades, Legacy participants covered most of the models of clubs offered by W/S and Bridgestone, and I consider that a benefit to OEMs over 'single model' events.

~Rock
 
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