Long Par 4's and Bad Drives

[Paladin]

I've been trying to cast as critical an eye to my game and really discover where I lose strokes. The more I look at my scores, the more I realize I have my "meltdown" holes where I card my 7's and 8's on long (450+ yard) par 4's and/or when I hit poor drives such as to the edge of OB, or generally well off the beaten path. A 240 yard drive still leaving me 200+ yards where I'm hitting a long hybrid off the deck for my second shot, or where I'm trying to get close to the green while shaping a shot to get around a tree is where the trouble starts, and it's just tough to recover from.

My question is, would you approach a hole like this planning to lay up the second shot, or play the second shot to a yardage? Are you planning for bogey at the tee box (and pinning your third shot close enough for a decent putt is a bonus), or do you let how well your drive goes determine how you score? "Damage control" isn't really a part of my game I've developed yet, but not being able to do it, I realize, is badly hampering my scores.

 

[mikedean441]

I've been trying to cast as critical an eye to my game and really discover where I lose strokes. The more I look at my scores, the more I realize I have my "meltdown" holes where I card my 7's and 8's on long (450+ yard) par 4's and/or when I hit poor drives such as to the edge of OB, or generally well off the beaten path. A 240 yard drive still leaving me 200+ yards where I'm hitting a long hybrid off the deck for my second shot, or where I'm trying to get close to the green while shaping a shot to get around a tree is where the trouble starts, and it's just tough to recover from.

My question is, would you approach a hole like this planning to lay up the second shot, or play the second shot to a yardage? Are you planning for bogey at the tee box (and pinning your third shot close enough for a decent putt is a bonus), or do you let how well your drive goes determine how you score? "Damage control" isn't really a part of my game I've developed yet, but not being able to do it, I realize, is badly hampering my scores.

If Im 200+ out, then Im "laying up", usually with a 8I and then a nice half LW onto the green and hopefully 1 putt for par. I go this route instead of trying the extremely low percentage shot that could spell disaster

 

[coers]

Have you tried using a fairway wood to get you out there and much better lie. For me when this happens I like to toss the 5 wood out there and would rather be 25/50 yards shorter but on the fairway. It's helped me and maybe it can help you to.

 

[JB]

My goal is always nothing higher than a 5 on the score card. If I hit a bad drive, I take my medicine and move the ball accordingly rather than try the miracle shot of 3 wood from the rough to a tight green surrounded by bunkers.

The second thought is are you playing the right tees? 450+ yard par 4 is very long and I believe you mentioned that you were hovering around a 21 index right now.

 

[War Eagle]

I lay up. No doubt about it.

I did it in the Bridgestone Championship a number of times on Holes 17 & 18. Two beastly Par 4s, and rather than risk hitting a 225 yard 2nd shot in to the green, I laid up and gave myself a chance to get up and down to save par. I played #17 and #18 at +1 for the weekend with that approach.

 

[#Cookie]

My approach to this hole largely depends on how I'm swinging the driver at the moment and if any trouble is brought into play with driver.

If driver is not going well, I can reach a 450 par 4 in 2 with 2h - 2h. I don't miss badly with it so I'm comfortable giving it a go from 220.

If I can't go for it in 2 safely then I will gladly put the 2nd out there to a number and play for bogey at worse.

Minimizing the blow up hole needs to be KEY for any golfer IMO to maintain a respectable score. Blow up holes just turn a decent 9 into a disaster all too quickly.

 

[Tadashi70]

If I have to layup I have no business playing those tees. The easiest way to avoid these high scores is to move up a set of tees. The next is to get back in play and play for bogie

 

[Paladin]

My goal is always nothing higher than a 5 on the score card. If I hit a bad drive, I take my medicine and move the ball accordingly rather than try the miracle shot of 3 wood from the rough to a tight green surrounded by bunkers.

The second thought is are you playing the right tees? 450+ yard par 4 is very long and I believe you mentioned that you were hovering around a 21 index right now.

Overall, I play from the right tees relative to my index, I believe. My home course does play kinda long, about 6500 yards from the middle tees (which is what I play), but there are just a couple of longer par 4's on the course where I am more likely to get in trouble off the tee than others. We're also just shy of a mile above sea level, so we do get a little more carry generally.

 

[ArmyGolf]

As soon as I hit a terrible tee shot on a long par 4 I now just start to think "how can I make 5 here instead of 6?" and I proceed accordingly.

 

[JB]

Overall, I play from the right tees relative to my index, I believe. My home course does play kinda long, about 6500 yards from the middle tees (which is what I play), but there are just a couple of longer par 4's on the course where I am more likely to get in trouble off the tee than others. We're also just shy of a mile above sea level, so we do get a little more carry generally.

Okay was genuinely curious. I would have assumed that with that index and struggles off the tee, that 6200-6300 would be more beneficial and suiting, but I am sure I am wrong with that.

 

[TheDoctor]

I was going to ask what your handicap is, but JB mentions he thinks you said it was around 21?

If that is the case, then you would have at least one stroke on the hole, possibly two depending on the stroke index, so I would play the hole as a par 5 rather than a par 4 and take advantage of your handicap to post a 5 (nett par) with the possibility of grabbing a 4 if you play a good enough approach and sink the putt

I always look at the scorecard and work out which holes I get a stroke for my handicap and then plan accordingly - no point pushing yourself on a 450+yd par 4 and making a mess of the hole and posting a high score when you could theoretically post a 5 and move on

 

[ohio_striker]

you could track what your success rate of making par or bogey in "going for it" vs laying up and trying to get up and down.

i would just do a little experament. me i would look at each situation and if there is trouble OB or water ect..im laying up.

 

[DevRickus]

I always play for par. This way if I hit a bad shot or 2 I know I can scramble and make a bogey and keep away from the big numbers. If I hit a few good shots, it brings birdie into play but I dont push my limits and try to make something happen that maybe 1 out of 10 times will happen. That's how mistakes compound each other and end up with the nice snowman.

 

[ArmyGolf]

I was going to ask what your handicap is, but JB mentions he thinks you said it was around 21?

If that is the case, then you would have at least one stroke on the hole, possibly two depending on the stroke index, so I would play the hole as a par 5 rather than a par 4 and take advantage of your handicap to post a 5 (nett par) with the possibility of grabbing a 4 if you play a good enough approach and sink the putt

I always look at the scorecard and work out which holes I get a stroke for my handicap and then plan accordingly - no point pushing yourself on a 450+yd par 4 and making a mess of the hole and posting a high score when you could theoretically post a 5 and move on

I wonder if there's something to this. Maybe my brain is just too wrapped up in "birdie/par/bogey" mentality but I can't see myself playing for bogey prior to even hitting my tee shot. I suppose I end up playing a reactionary game as opposed to dictating the game.
Something to think about for sure for me.

 

[Tadashi70]

Overall, I play from the right tees relative to my index, I believe. My home course does play kinda long, about 6500 yards from the middle tees (which is what I play), but there are just a couple of longer par 4's on the course where I am more likely to get in trouble off the tee than others. We're also just shy of a mile above sea level, so we do get a little more carry generally.

If you have to hit perfect drives on these holes to avoid blowing up, the middle tees may not be for you. Move up a set next time you play and see what happens. If you shoot even par then maybe they aren't the right set. But my guess is you'll still play typical golf without the blow ups

 

[Paladin]

Okay was genuinely curious. I would have assumed that with that index and struggles off the tee, that 6200-6300 would be more beneficial and suiting, but I am sure I am wrong with that.

One other thing I didn't mention is that while the middle tees play to about 6500, the next shortest tees play to less than 6000 yards...5800, I believe. I've played from those tees before, and still do occasionally, but I believe I'm going to get more improvement and enjoyment (one could describe me as a glutton for punishment) playing from the tees I normally play from.

 

[salisboss]

I should do this more than I do. My problem tends to be that I have huge gaps at the top of my bag although as I fix my flip this is getting better (when I last played outside I had no club from 170 to 200). Also my wedge game is craptastic from 30 yards to 90.

 

[GregDan]

I think you need to try not and overthink it. Play your game and take what the course gives you.

Realistically you should have no problem making no worse than a bogey on any given hole. First get yourself in play and with a good chance to make a swing on your second shot. Play to your strengths and forget about the rest.

If you don't know your strengths, then start taking a different approach to your course management. Instead of just grabbing driver and hammering a drive and hoping it goes straight, hit a FW and get in the fairway. If you try and always pull off the miracle shot, take less club and keep your ball away from trouble. Little things like that can make a big difference.

 

[DevRickus]

One other thing I didn't mention is that while the middle tees play to about 6500, the next shortest tees play to less than 6000 yards...5800, I believe. I've played from those tees before, and still do occasionally, but I believe I'm going to get more improvement and enjoyment (one could describe me as a glutton for punishment) playing from the tees I normally play from.

Improvements can be made on a driving range. The thing that will help you most is switching between the tees. Those 5800 tees will help with course management and from what I am told that will be HUGE at the MC on those courses. Stretching it out the tips occasionally will help also. Maybe a different set each time. Keeps you on your toes.

 

[Adam Hartzell]

I'm in the same boat. 21 hdcp and a course that has two long par 4s. I always hit 3w off those tees just to keep me in the fairway. The longer of the two plays at 412 from the whites and I'll happily play 3w followed by 4h and then up and down for par or bogey if I miss the green, which I usually do on that hole.

 

[Tadashi70]

I wonder if there's something to this. Maybe my brain is just too wrapped up in "birdie/par/bogey" mentality but I can't see myself playing for bogey prior to even hitting my tee shot. I suppose I end up playing a reactionary game as opposed to dictating the game.
Something to think about for sure for me.

i think people would play better I'd that played for bogie or at least to their handicap. At a 9.3, rule of thumb you can play 5 above or below. So bogie is always in pay on the hardest holes for 18.

 

[v.man]

If it is a 450 yard par 4, this is a no-brainer for me. Even if I hit my "A" drive, Mr. Short Knocker is not getting home in two. I don't even think about it. Just lay up to my favorite yardage, if I can, and put the third on the green, take a bogey it it's not close, and move on. The same goes for almost anything that's over 200 yards into the green, especially if there is a lot of trouble around the green.

 

[GregDan]

One other thing I didn't mention is that while the middle tees play to about 6500, the next shortest tees play to less than 6000 yards...5800, I believe. I've played from those tees before, and still do occasionally, but I believe I'm going to get more improvement and enjoyment (one could describe me as a glutton for punishment) playing from the tees I normally play from.

Don't get caught up in the yardage. Just because it's under 6000 doesn't mean you don't have to hit good shots. Playing the shorter tees will not only help improve your game, but you will have a lot more fun doing it.

 

[Ole Gray]

Play it like a par 5 from there or even set your mind on the tee box to score no worse than a 5 and plan accordingly.

 

[wadesworld]

At a 21 handicap, the problem is your consistency.

Some of these guys that are sub-10 handicaps can go for a green with a 3-iron from 230 out. Those of us with higher handicaps generally should not. With a long club, your margin of error is huge. A 5-handicap might mishit his shot 10 yards offline, chip on, and two-putt for bogey. No big deal. A higher-handicapper might mishit their shot 40 yards offline and go OB or get in a situation where it takes 2 or more shots to get on and then 2 putt for a really big number. Huge deal.

I know it's hard because when you make that easy bogey, there's this little voice that says, "I could have had a par there." But that's a lie. You'll get more pars by hitting a good wedge onto the green and one-putting than you will by pulling off a miracle 230-yard shot.