- Staff
- #651
Well said Frank.
PING G425 Drivers and Irons
- Staff
- #652
Is there anything in particular we can discuss before I can get to a keyboard this evening? Always happy to have conversation on golf clubs.
I think we covered sound so that's a non starter.
Is the 425Max on line performance wise with the previous gen? Anything stand out that you thought was better than last version?
erock9174
Well-known member
I've had this same sentiment over the years. While I never seem to get any Ping gear in the bag (not for lack of trying) they are a brand that I feel do alot of things right for the "average" golfer, which given the name, The Hackers Paradise, this site seems to draw more of the avg Joe golfer vs the + handicap, 320 yd crowd that seem to be the majority on some other forums.
I would say that they are not the most flashy brand... but I think that's simply in their DNA. The same could be said about Titleist. They are a brand that seems to believe in a product and tries to improve on it incrementally vs being revolutionary. This could be a knock but if Ping believes in their formula, is it wrong to have this philosophy?
I feel that Ping always draw a bat beat on this forum. But I wouldn't say it's on purpose though. THP has many oem's that are more "involved" if you will. And by involved that could mean sponsoring events or the site, participating in live events, company members being active on the forum or sending in gear to be evaluated, etc. I don't know the behind the scenes like a staffer would, but it could just be that Ping is not as interested in THP as much as we the reader/consumer are interested in Ping gear/info. If it's Ping's , decision to not participate here as much as some other OEM's, that disappoints me, as like I mentioned, I really feel that their gear fits the bell curve of golfers and they could gain some real exposure here.
Other than @Jman love for the G400 we've seen very little Ping coverage on THP especially in the past 4-5 years. And as I understood that, James actually bought the club on his own and gamed it. Normally when it comes to Ping its typically a quick write up on release day and that is about it. No real product seeding into the hands of reviewers for the long term etc. And once again, not a knock on the site if Ping is not willing to be involved more.
What did you guys see for differences on spin between the different heads? I’ve seen some reviews that find very little difference. Curious what you guys saw with the different swings that tried it last week.
- Staff
- #656
I actually saw extreme similarities, much closer than I expected in both launch and spin. I also think the dropping of dragonfly is a perplexing move to me as well after just a generation. It’s just not the fastest head out there, and that’s part of the PING story that’s going to get more exposed imo as we continue forward. It finally caught Titleist and they had to radically evolve to get back in the hunt, I believe truly that PING is nearing that same thing.
They can be dialed in, absolutely, but they just don’t have the firepower I saw from a lot of brands, and that didn’t used to be the case.
Add in sound, because it does matter, and it’s a confusing design and release. Personally, I see very little reason to move from 410, unless one just wants to no matter what.
- Staff
- #657
I disagree with the PING coverage aspect. We had an event where guys went to PING HQ and have done many reviews over that timeframe. There’s no short end of the stick, but I do believe there is a lot of them getting caught and passed by a lot of brands for innovation, story, and engagement.
Summit
Well-known member
I don't want to speak for THP, but I would find it extremely difficult to believe that THP and any of their staff would be going out their way to ensure Ping product gets a bad wrap or little marketing. THP does have sponsors (not sure if that's the right word or not) and so you hear from those OEMs more. I don't know the inner workings of THP and how they go through their sponsors and how the connect with companies, but it does seem that they have really good relationships with brands. I just can't believe that they would push Ping away, it doesn't serve THP well.
I'm rambling and probably not making sense.
I've worked with Ping in the past and they do things a very specific way and walk to their own beat. The G425 line is good, but won't be for everyone and that's ok. It's always good to have people who like a product and those that don't. Market competition is good for golfers and helps keep companies honest. G410 LST was a great club and will be very hard to beat. That's a good problem to have in my opinion. G425 may or may not beat it out, but I can guarantee that a place like THP will help give feedback to Ping and other OEMs so that the next product can be better.
Were you guys seeing lower smash numbers with them or maybe slower swings?
- Staff
- #661
Swings were not slower, they were warmed up.
They were imo acceptable ball speeds, the issue comes when in the past that was more easily rationalized by a head like the Max being more forgiving than others, but now, companies are offering more speed and the same level of forgiveness, that’s an issue.
yeah, like you, I would like to see the Foresight numbers to see what they were seeing and help us understand the results better.
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- Staff
- #666
I would suspect fall, but with their current situation and direction, who knows. The release of these everywhere else in the world months ahead of the us was still super odd.
- Thread starter
- Admin
- #667
Let me respond and hopefully help.
Ping is as involved with THP as any other OEM from the perspective of our staff and working with companies.
We did an event there.
They send every line to THP.
We gave away as much or more Ping equipment over the last 12 months in contests than any other OEM. Heck on social alone, I believe we gave away 4 driver heads, 4 FW woods and a set of irons.
We did exactly THREE events last year. 1 with Cobra Golf, 1 with Ben Hogan and 1 with UST Mamiya.
We test every single brand the exact same way.
This idea that they do not get home page reviews compared to Callaway, etc. Callaway sent in exactly zero drivers to be tested by staff last year. Cobra sent in 2. Srixon sent in 4. Mizuno sent in 4. Taylormade sent in 3. Ping sent in six. Wilson sent in 2. Tour Edge sent in 2. XXIO sent in 2. Honma sent in 3. I'm sure I am missing some in my notes.
People have this idea of bias, honesty and the inner workings of our business and its all ********. I mean completely wrong on every level and frankly that's okay. We are BY FAR the most transparent website in golf and the only one where the owners and writers are required to be visible (by rule) for feedback on our forum. Every sponsor is listed at the bottom of our forum.
Im not here to change anybody's mind about the how, what or why, because in 13 years of doing this, you realize it's not worth it, people believe what they want to and clearly see what they want to, but if anybody wants to know facts, there is an entire thread asking us to ask us anything someone wants and we tried (and still will) answer anything thrown our way.
Back to the PING conversation for now. Which FWIW, they sent in every driver, every FW, every hybrid, a crossover and irons for testing.
erock9174
Well-known member
I can't speak to that event as somehow I missed that even though I'm a pretty engaged member for 10+ years now.
If it doesn't really hit the equipment pages I tend to miss it.
I think where Ping gets lost on here is with events like the Grandaddy, Morgan Cup and TEEm Tour Edge. Those events/contents provide many members with full bags or at least several clubs to very engaged members that post long term reviews. This keeps their threads at the forefront of the site and keeps the dialogue going. I am not saying this is a negative as I was part of TEEm Tour Edge in 2020. It's a great thing for the oems like Cobra, Callaway and Tour Edge amongst others who participate. But Ping in my opinion loses out on forum engagement because they are not as involved with the club seeding per se.
As for your comment on them getting caught by alot of brands that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I do agree that Ping who and is still known for very stable drivers are getting caught by other oems in that area. I have played the Flash for two seasons now and still shake my head at how good of results I get with off center strikes.
I haven't fit into Ping clubs very well lately with my crazy swing so I can't really give any of my own feedback. I just have to go on what I see and read online, how it fares on the Tour etc., and it seems Ping is still in the mix with the best of the oem's. Heck a couple weeks back I believe every winner on the Tours that weekend (Champion's, PGA and LPGA) all had i210 irons in the bag.
I used to subscribe to a car magazine that developed such a reputation for being fanboys that there was a joke going around that the winner of their shootout between the new Camaro and the new Mustang was the Honda Accord, which just edged out the BMW 3 series. I don't worry about finding that kind of bias here.
It's impossible not to have preconceived ideas based on experience/expectations. It's one thing to have those ideas color one's observation/judgment - you know, "believing is seeing." It's quite another to process new information objectively and compare it to those ideas. This IMO is where THP shines. Of course the staff have preconceived ideas, but they are based on extensive experience and data. Staff opinions are based upon a lot more information than I will ever have at my disposal, and that is why they are a valuable part of my decision making. They are important, but not the only input I use. These guys put a lot of work, effort, and thought into their reviews and they put it all out there for us to see. I have yet to see a review that was driven by an emotional response. Don't stop doing that.
It's impossible not to have preconceived ideas based on experience/expectations. It's one thing to have those ideas color one's observation/judgment - you know, "believing is seeing." It's quite another to process new information objectively and compare it to those ideas. This IMO is where THP shines. Of course the staff have preconceived ideas, but they are based on extensive experience and data. Staff opinions are based upon a lot more information than I will ever have at my disposal, and that is why they are a valuable part of my decision making. They are important, but not the only input I use. These guys put a lot of work, effort, and thought into their reviews and they put it all out there for us to see. I have yet to see a review that was driven by an emotional response. Don't stop doing that.
Summit
Well-known member
The conversations I had with Ping were that they HAD to do it that way or they would have run out product entirely and had major setbacks. They had limited product available when it was time to do the standard release here in the US. If they would have released the product here, they would have run out extremely fast and wouldn't have been able to catch back up. Releasing the line in Australia and Southeast Asia gave Ping a buffer period to create more product while operating at limited capacity. It wasn't ideal but it was the best choice for Ping by a long shot.
erock9174
Well-known member
Thanks for the info.
I hope anything I posted wasn't taken as a slight on the site. The original commenter felt like Ping was always being rooted against on this site.
I simply posted that at times I have felt the same way, but then justified my comments that from my experience it's simply an exposure thing.
As you pointed out, the sponsors of the site are listed below and Ping is not one of them. So that tells me, they do not want to be involved with the site as much as other oems. Not a knock on THP. That is simply Ping's decision to not sponsor here.
You mentioned giving away many Ping clubs, but isn't there a difference between giveaways and events where feedback is required vs not?
I mentioned the 3 contests like the Grandaddy, Morgan Cup and TEEm Tour Edge. Those contests breed engagement on here and rightfully so. The oem and the site put forth a ton of effort to get gear into testers hands wanting our feedback.
From what you have posted about Ping, they send in clubs which are then given away in a contest or given away on social. That is an awesome gesture by the oem and site, but those I don't believe require the same level of forum engagement as the big events do.
So that is all I was getting at. One could say the same thing about Taylormade clubs as well as they are not a sponsor according to the below list.
Sorry to derail the G425 thread.
erock9174
Well-known member
Didn't they lose a big shipment with an overseas boat issue too?
- Thread starter
- Admin
- #673
No I’ll intent viewed.
Being a sponsor has nothing to do with giving products to forum members for review. A sponsor of THP has absolutely zero to do with content and no company has ever asked me or a staff writer to write something. That is the Gods honest truth.
Giving them away on social was a me decision, I could have just as easily given them to forum members to review.
and it’s not like one of those decisions breeds more forum engagement than the other. too many instances of receiving gear and immediately selling it without ever reviewing it, ghosting, etc. always very disappointing. but for every instance of that there are exponentially more great reviews from average joes, and staff writers giving ongoing feedback to help us make purchase decisions. despite what my wife and long-term financial goals say, i’m appreciative of that.
Ping has always been a steady eddy in equipment. Good stuff very comparable and appealed to a wide audience. The G400 LST was a great driver and I think was the pinnacle of ping offerings.
The G425 series has been a bit of a mess since the beginning. Not all of it pings fault. Covid happened and they made the decision to push it out. That turned out to be from what I can tell a bad decision. Then ping could not keep up and that they were weeks and even months behind on order fulfillment.
then just this week they had two containers full of driver head fall off a container ship and sink to the bottom of the pacific. I heard 10k heads.. that’s crazy bad luck..
On top of all that, the product in my opinion is very underwhelming. The head has maybe the highest MOI rating ever. Something just over a 10 thousand rating. So it is extremely stable and looks pretty good but other than that I am not that impressed..
The G425 series has been a bit of a mess since the beginning. Not all of it pings fault. Covid happened and they made the decision to push it out. That turned out to be from what I can tell a bad decision. Then ping could not keep up and that they were weeks and even months behind on order fulfillment.
then just this week they had two containers full of driver head fall off a container ship and sink to the bottom of the pacific. I heard 10k heads.. that’s crazy bad luck..
On top of all that, the product in my opinion is very underwhelming. The head has maybe the highest MOI rating ever. Something just over a 10 thousand rating. So it is extremely stable and looks pretty good but other than that I am not that impressed..