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The Official 2011 NFL Thread

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war.eagle said:
I can go either way with it. But, emotions were high after a big win for Harbaugh, Shwartz should have just let it go.
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All I had to say about it was..."Wow this must be a slow news day" lol. Why the heck is that a big deal?
 
Penglynns said:
When you mortgage your future to pay for the present nothing good can come of it. Ask the Deadskins. How many years did they give up draft picks for old players, etc. and do nothing. They still haven't recovered. You can give away later round picks, but you don't win consistently by giving away first rounders. If you draft poorly that's fixable. If you don't have any picks at all - you're just SOL. The Patriots are the Patriots because they build through the draft, stockpile picks from other idiots, and then reload (and they have Tom Brady...) The Colts do the same thing. The Steelers. The Packers. The best teams use the draft and hit on those 1st and 2nd rounders more often than not, and plug holes with free agents.

You honestly think a declining Carson Palmer who hasn't played in months and wasn't playing well last time he was on the field is going to lead a brand new team and new offense he has to learn with mediocre wide receivers to a super bowl? So what it they make the playoffs in a sketch AFC West. The Texans, Titans, or Jaguars will make the playoffs from the South - it means little if that's all you do, get blown out at home in your first round game against a real team. Better to not give away too much of the future for an uncertain present with very little chance of true reward.
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Ok here's my chain of thought... the common thread in those teams you mentioned is that they have a stud QB that frees them up to do all the stuff you talk about. Now look at Indy, no stud QB this year so if they get a high pick in 2012 guess what they're going to try to pickup. All teams that don't have that luxury have to spend and waste picks on a QB (a high one at that) because that's the key in the NFL. You can talk Baltimore Ravens with Trent Dilfer until you're blue in the face and I'll tell you that is an anomaly and not the standard. Also, the Raiders don't exactly have a stellar draft history that high in the draft other than Run DMC. I know nothing is ever a certainty in the NFL but this is about as close as it gets. You get a proven vet that's extremely well rested, hungry to win, and knows the system they are running better than whatever QB is out there. For what? Technically you traded Darius Heyward-Bey and JaMarcus Russell for that luxury.

I hate defending the Raiders but if it brings them to the promise land and they get 3 years out of Palmer (highly likely barring major injury) it's a good deal. They get a good name to replace Campbell (who was on his last year of his contract anyway) and you get a vet to groom your next QB. Would I make that same deal, no but these are the Raiders we are talking about. They've done crazy sh!t before so this is SOP for them.

OEM Kevin said:
After seeing the handshake gate 1000x now I don't think Harbaugh did anything wrong. Shwartz is a punk and sorry loser. I just became a huge Harbaugh fan.
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hartattack52 said:
Same here. Harbaugh was excited and there is nothing wrong with that. Just because Schwartz didn't like the way he shook his hand, doesn't mean Harbaugh did anything wrong.
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blugold said:
They were both hotheads. Each one of them reacted poorly at different times.
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war.eagle said:
I can go either way with it. But, emotions were high after a big win for Harbaugh, Shwartz should have just let it go.
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Did someone say protocol? How quick we can forget Jim Schwartz...

 
Penglynns said:
When you mortgage your future to pay for the present nothing good can come of it. Ask the Deadskins. How many years did they give up draft picks for old players, etc. and do nothing. They still haven't recovered. You can give away later round picks, but you don't win consistently by giving away first rounders. If you draft poorly that's fixable. If you don't have any picks at all - you're just SOL. The Patriots are the Patriots because they build through the draft, stockpile picks from other idiots, and then reload (and they have Tom Brady...) The Colts do the same thing. The Steelers. The Packers. The best teams use the draft and hit on those 1st and 2nd rounders more often than not, and plug holes with free agents.

You honestly think a declining Carson Palmer who hasn't played in months and wasn't playing well last time he was on the field is going to lead a brand new team and new offense he has to learn with mediocre wide receivers to a super bowl? So what it they make the playoffs in a sketch AFC West. The Texans, Titans, or Jaguars will make the playoffs from the South - it means little if that's all you do, get blown out at home in your first round game against a real team. Better to not give away too much of the future for an uncertain present with very little chance of true reward.
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Spank818 said:
Ok here's my chain of thought... the common thread in those teams you mentioned is that they have a stud QB that frees them up to do all the stuff you talk about. Now look at Indy, no stud QB this year so if they get a high pick in 2012 guess what they're going to try to pickup. All teams that don't have that luxury have to spend and waste picks on a QB (a high one at that) because that's the key in the NFL. You can talk Baltimore Ravens with Trent Dilfer until you're blue in the face and I'll tell you that is an anomaly and not the standard. Also, the Raiders don't exactly have a stellar draft history that high in the draft other than Run DMC. I know nothing is ever a certainty in the NFL but this is about as close as it gets. You get a proven vet that's extremely well rested, hungry to win, and knows the system they are running better than whatever QB is out there. For what? Technically you traded Darius Heyward-Bey and JaMarcus Russell for that luxury.

I hate defending the Raiders but if it brings them to the promise land and they get 3 years out of Palmer (highly likely barring major injury) it's a good deal. They get a good name to replace Campbell (who was on his last year of his contract anyway) and you get a vet to groom your next QB. Would I make that same deal, no but these are the Raiders we are talking about. They've done crazy sh!t before so this is SOP for them.
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Im with spank here. You are speaking of all teams that have their franchise QB and are building around that spot. The Raiders had a chance with that and it set them back a few years in Russell. Now they have a chance at a playoff game and advancing further by having a name brand behind center that with in a few weeks should manage the game nicely.

This is a business and they are only giving up a 2nd 1st round pick if they achieve the goals of winning in the playoffs. People quickly forget or dont realize how much money having a playoff game and even bigger a playoff win brings to a franchise. The Seahawks proved last year that get in and you can win. Heck, look at the Super Bowl winners over the last decade or so and see how many come from the Wild Card teams. Getting "in" can mean a lot and a huge amount of revenue.

The plan is to get multiple years out of Palmer and assuming he stays healthy, should be no issue at his age. Trading a 1st round pick for a serviceable to good QB is a no brainer for many teams. They were playoff bound and needed a QB to continue that run because Kyle Boller was not going to get that done. Trading away a "chance" at possibly getting a player for a player that can come in and win now and take a team to the playoffs that has been absolutely awful for years is something that was a no brainer.

Im not always for trading away the future, and frankly rarely for it. But each time it must be looked at independently and for them in this situation it has worked. Just like it has worked that they gave away other draft picks on players like Seymore. They have built a solid team here and one that can win now with the right pieces. Giving up on that is just not an option with their recent history.
 
I also think that sometimes draft picks are way overrated by teams, media, and fans so if you have the chance to trade the unknown for the known it's not always a bad thing

JB said:
Im with spank here. You are speaking of all teams that have their franchise QB and are building around that spot. The Raiders had a chance with that and it set them back a few years in Russell. Now they have a chance at a playoff game and advancing further by having a name brand behind center that with in a few weeks should manage the game nicely.

This is a business and they are only giving up a 2nd 1st round pick if they achieve the goals of winning in the playoffs. People quickly forget or dont realize how much money having a playoff game and even bigger a playoff win brings to a franchise. The Seahawks proved last year that get in and you can win. Heck, look at the Super Bowl winners over the last decade or so and see how many come from the Wild Card teams. Getting "in" can mean a lot and a huge amount of revenue.

The plan is to get multiple years out of Palmer and assuming he stays healthy, should be no issue at his age. Trading a 1st round pick for a serviceable to good QB is a no brainer for many teams. They were playoff bound and needed a QB to continue that run because Kyle Boller was not going to get that done. Trading away a "chance" at possibly getting a player for a player that can come in and win now and take a team to the playoffs that has been absolutely awful for years is something that was a no brainer.

Im not always for trading away the future, and frankly rarely for it. But each time it must be looked at independently and for them in this situation it has worked. Just like it has worked that they gave away other draft picks on players like Seymore. They have built a solid team here and one that can win now with the right pieces. Giving up on that is just not an option with their recent history.
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If you can get four or five good years from a player in a trade for a 1st round pick, then ok. I don't think Palmer has five good years. I don't think he has any good years. He has been average at best when he last played and hasn't been a pro-bowler since 2006. And now the Raiders have basically no draft class next year and have hurt the year after as well.

Don't forget that Al Davis is gone now and no longer will be calling the stupid draft day decisions that have plagued them in the past. Perhaps they'll use their brains instead of their stop-watches to make picks going forward.

Brillinat move for the Bengals, though. Get rid of an underperforming, overpaid malcontent, extra high draft picks, and a young team playing well - they'll be a force in the north for the next multiple years as they continue to develop around Dalton, et al. Smartest thing the Bungles have done in years.
 
Penglynns said:
If you can get four or five good years from a player in a trade for a 1st round pick, then ok. I don't think Palmer has five good years. I don't think he has any good years. He has been average at best when he last played and hasn't been a pro-bowler since 2006. And now the Raiders have basically no draft class next year and have hurt the year after as well.

Don't forget that Al Davis is gone now and no longer will be calling the stupid draft day decisions that have plagued them in the past. Perhaps they'll use their brains instead of their stop-watches to make picks going forward.

Brillinat move for the Bengals, though. Get rid of an underperforming, overpaid malcontent, extra high draft picks, and a young team playing well - they'll be a force in the north for the next multiple years as they continue to develop around Dalton, et al. Smartest thing the Bungles have done in years.
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The current coach and his staff believe differently from you. Time will tell whether or not it was a smart move but I, and a few others, believe that it was a smart move. I guess we'll find out.
 
I think this move is about the other players on the team too. By making this move the Raiders are saying were still trying to win right now and its not time to pack it in and give up on the season. Like say the Cowboys did after Romo got hurt. I think its a smart move by the team.
 
If Carson Palmer turns out decent a good move by the Raiders. I still don't like for the my belief that Carson is not even average at this point. He might be better than Kyle Boller but I think he lays a big one in Oakland.
 
Yoccos said:
If Carson Palmer turns out decent a good move by the Raiders. I still don't like for the my belief that Carson is not even average at this point. He might be better than Kyle Boller but I think he lays a big one in Oakland.
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I kind of feel like the Raiders are taking a shot at Palmer like the Cardinals took a shot at Kolb. They are doing what they can to better their teams. Did they get superstars, no, but they got themselves something better then they had before. And for the raiders, they are trying to stay alive and make the playoffs and I say good for them. It's more than I can say for a team like the Dolphins who gave up after the first week.
 
GolferGal said:
I kind of feel like the Raiders are taking a shot at Palmer like the Cardinals took a shot at Kolb. They are doing what they can to better their teams. Did they get superstars, no, but they got themselves something better then they had before. And for the raiders, they are trying to stay alive and make the playoffs and I say good for them. It's more than I can say for a team like the Dolphins who gave up after the first week.
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I totally agree here with the fact they're trying. I still think Chicago overpaid for Cutler considering they've done nothing to surround him with talent. You'll pay high for what you think is a good/great QB. I just don't share the belief that Palmer will be even average. Kolb had some potential but I just think Carson lost it upstairs.
 
Yoccos said:
I totally agree here with the fact they're trying. I still think Chicago overpaid for Cutler considering they've done nothing to surround him with talent. I just don't share the belief that Palmer will be even average. Kolb had some potential but I just think Carson lost it upstairs.
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Cutler is getting killed out there week in and week out. He needs some serious protection or he won't make it much longer just from getting beat up. Kolb did absolutely nothing when he was at Philly, I would have considered him a backup at best, and even that was questionable. I never did understand what Arizona saw in him but he seems to be working out OK in AZ, he is no Warner though. Palmer is a huge question mark in my book. He definitely checked out last year and he may not be 100% upstairs but if he can show any signs of the college QB that wowed everyone then he will certainly be an improvement from what the Raiders were already working with. They had slim pickings out there. That whole thing with Garrard and his neck is still really weird to me, and once he was out of the equation who else did they really have to chose from?
 
Grossman has been benched for Beck. Time to change your team name to the Beckman TMod.
 
GolferGal said:
Cutler is getting killed out there week in and week out. He needs some serious protection or he won't make it much longer just from getting beat up. Kolb did absolutely nothing when he was at Philly, I would have considered him a backup at best, and even that was questionable. I never did understand what Arizona saw in him but he seems to be working out OK in AZ, he is no Warner though. Palmer is a huge question mark in my book. He definitely checked out last year and he may not be 100% upstairs but if he can show any signs of the college QB that wowed everyone then he will certainly be an improvement from what the Raiders were already working with. They had slim pickings out there. That whole thing with Garrard and his neck is still really weird to me, and once he was out of the equation who else did they really have to chose from?
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They could've traded for Rex. Difference maker right there!!!!

Yeah, I mean I see they were pretty much out of options. Kolb shows flashes then does nothing... It'll be interesting what the Cardinals do if he just continues his season like it is. I just have to wonder, how many NFL players have checked out, then revived their career with the next team? It's the rebound theory to me. The Raiders are his rebound girl and I don't think he gets over the Bengals until he moves on from the Raiders. It'll be interesting. I don't care much for Palmer either maybe thats clouding my judgment. Haha, wouldnt be the first time!
 
GolferGal said:
Cutler is getting killed out there week in and week out. He needs some serious protection or he won't make it much longer just from getting beat up. Kolb did absolutely nothing when he was at Philly, I would have considered him a backup at best, and even that was questionable. I never did understand what Arizona saw in him but he seems to be working out OK in AZ, he is no Warner though. Palmer is a huge question mark in my book. He definitely checked out last year and he may not be 100% upstairs but if he can show any signs of the college QB that wowed everyone then he will certainly be an improvement from what the Raiders were already working with. They had slim pickings out there. That whole thing with Garrard and his neck is still really weird to me, and once he was out of the equation who else did they really have to chose from?
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In my opinion, Kolb was created into this All Pro QB by the Media during the Lockout because he was one of the "big names" out there to be traded as soon as the lockout is over. I never understood what he had accomplished that warranted that kind of hype, but I guess Arizona bought in to it.
 
OEM Kevin said:
Grossman has been benched for Beck. Time to change your team name to the Beckman TMod.
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GolferGal said:
It should be the benchman.
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Rex is the product of that crazy Shanahan style of coaching. I think that coach is a bum. He never gave Rex a chance. Rex has the arm of Cutler and the mobility of Vick.

**I'm a bit hurt by this news.... The Grossmen will live on though.. have no fear!
 
TC said:
The current coach and his staff believe differently from you. Time will tell whether or not it was a smart move but I, and a few others, believe that it was a smart move. I guess we'll find out.
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The current coach probably didn't have a ton of say in the personell decision and what would he say anyway? He's the coach of a team that has a historically short leash for coaches, of course he's going to spin it the best he can and try to win now - to save his own skin if nothing else. When you work for a disfunctional organization the best thing you can do is smile and nod and agree with upper management. :)
 
While finding good players in the first round of the draft is important, you really build a team by amassing picks in the later rounds and scoring there.

Kevin
 
I watched a documentary on Tim Tebow last night on ESPN. After watching it, I hope the kid succeeds. He's a very hard worker and better than that, he's a good human being. I couldn't help but wonder why the Jaguars didn't draft him? He's a legend in Jacksonville and if anything, would've put a ton of butts in the seats, and who knows, maybe brought a winning culture to the franchise. I'm not a Broncos fan, and I was never a UF fan, but I really will be hoping for success for this guy.
 
TC said:
I watched a documentary on Tim Tebow last night on ESPN. After watching it, I hope the kid succeeds. He's a very hard worker and better than that, he's a good human being. I couldn't help but wonder why the Jaguars didn't draft him? He's a legend in Jacksonville and if anything, would've put a ton of butts in the seats, and who knows, maybe brought a winning culture to the franchise. I'm not a Broncos fan, and I was never a UF fan, but I really will be hoping for success for this guy.
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I agree, I have always liked the guy. He is a good dude and deserves success.
 
TC said:
I watched a documentary on Tim Tebow last night on ESPN. After watching it, I hope the kid succeeds. He's a very hard worker and better than that, he's a good human being. I couldn't help but wonder why the Jaguars didn't draft him? He's a legend in Jacksonville and if anything, would've put a ton of butts in the seats, and who knows, maybe brought a winning culture to the franchise. I'm not a Broncos fan, and I was never a UF fan, but I really will be hoping for success for this guy.
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That was talked about a ton here in Florida, many thought he would get drafted by the Jags. Even though I went to Florida, I was gone before the Tebow era so I wasn't a superfan anymore, but I still liked the guy. My sister was in school during that time and she always said that everyone had nothing but great things to say about Tebow, I know there were some rumors that he was fake, but according to her she never noticed that. He is everything that is right with football, he is't the guy who will be 'up in da club' at 2am. He may be a little too into the church for me, but I still respect him for what he stands for and his leadership abilities on the field and in the locker room.
 
TC said:
I watched a documentary on Tim Tebow last night on ESPN. After watching it, I hope the kid succeeds. He's a very hard worker and better than that, he's a good human being. I couldn't help but wonder why the Jaguars didn't draft him? He's a legend in Jacksonville and if anything, would've put a ton of butts in the seats, and who knows, maybe brought a winning culture to the franchise. I'm not a Broncos fan, and I was never a UF fan, but I really will be hoping for success for this guy.
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I feel the exact same way TC. Not only that I don't remember any player from any sport who had basically all the "experts" against him from the start of his career. It seems like no one is giving him any shot at all. And I don't feel like there is any basis for the failure expectations.
 
One-T said:
I agree, I have always liked the guy. He is a good dude and deserves success.
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The kid is a tireless worker. He'll be rewarded for that. What was really shocking was how much Jacksonville loves the guy. That franchise should've drafted him. No wonder they suck so bad. THey make stupid decisions.
 
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