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What is wrong with Golf Courses?

Well, the 14 holes instead of 18 would definitely improve my handicap.....
 
Last year I would have complained a ton about slow play, but it hasn't been bad at all for me this year. I haven't played one round over 4.5 hours, which is still slow, but not excruciating.

I think choosing your time and course wisely is the best way to deal with slow play.

I think getting kids involved in the game makes the future brighter for golf. I'll be taking my kid(s) with me the first chance I get.
 
Hawk said:
Make it easier to find errant balls so people don't have to search for shots that miss the fairway by 5 feet. That could be as simple as mowing the rough a bit short or as complex as removing trees and underbrush.
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Excellent point.. and it applies to all handicaps. If you hit a bad shot but think you have a chance of finding it, you're going to look for it. That is the number one waste of time. Not bad shots that roll 2 feet in front of the tee.. but the ones that give the golfer the idea that, "Maybe I can find it and save par (bogey/double..). From personal experience, that is where I have lost the most time.
 
Most of the people I talk to, it's price. Shelling out $75 per round to a lot of people is ridiculous. Reasonably priced green fees would go a long way to making the game more accessible I think. Equipment is pricey also, but, there's a ton of well priced alternatives available, and ebay!
 
Tons of great info here guys. What do you think about the length of holes?

Personally, I dont believe Par 3s should play longer than a 170, and par 4s 430.

Par 5s should not be shorter than 550.
 
Thainer said:
Tons of great info here guys. What do you think about the length of holes?

Personally, I dont believe Par 3s should play longer than a 170, and par 4s 430.

Par 5s should not be shorter than 550.
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I don't like par 3's over 180-185 for my game. Par 4's in the 420's are getting up there for me. As for par 5's, I like the short and longer ones. I think both have a place.
 
I really enjoy playing the par 63 course close to my house. I can play 18 in 2.5 hours if it's not busy and I use all the clubs in my bag.
 
Hawk said:
I think both have a place.
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Sometimes I do, but sometimes I really dont.

When tees are moved up, Par 5s play like par 4.5s. You've taken a 3 shot hole and made it a maybe 2 shot hole. So 8 guys(the foursome off the tee) need to wait for the green to clear to proceed. Duff the second shot way right, third into the greenside bunker, 4th blade over the green. 5 on and 3 putts. All because some jackass has hit the ball far once before and was trying to break 100 with eagles on every par 5.

This is not a rare case and causes delays with 5 of every 6 groups that cycle through every par 5.
 
Perkins Rooster said:
I really enjoy playing the par 63 course close to my house. I can play 18 in 2.5 hours if it's not busy and I use all the clubs in my bag.
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I have something similar nearby (par 66, I think), but I only go there on weekday evenings. It's a party course on weekends and not fun at all.
 
Thainer said:
Sometimes I do, but sometimes I really dont.

When tees are moved up, Par 5s play like par 4.5s. You've taken a 3 shot hole and made it a maybe 2 shot hole. Duff the second shot way right, third into the greenside bunker, 4th blade over the green. 5 on and 3 putts. All because some jackass has hit the ball far once before and was trying to break 100 with eagles on every par 5.

This is not a rare case and causes delays with 5 of every 6 groups that cycle through every par 5.
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Hahaha. For me, it's a three shot hole no matter what. I don't think I've ever gone for a par 5 in two in my life :(
 
I think it's a combination of a lot of things. Average golfers should play shorter courses, easier courses, and play more quickly.
 
Not too long ago I witnessed the First Tee program in action and it was very encouraging to see a large group of youngsters out there getting into golf. I am curious how participation in the First Tee program has fluctuated over the last 10 years?

I think a lot of courses don't play to their market. In my town we have a very large college population and only one course has made a concerted effort (through cheap midday course fees) of bringing the college kids out. As you can imagine the course plays pretty slow but it is good to see teens and twenty somethings out playing a round.

I think many are getting smart with their discount cards/clubs etc, I know that when my course added a member appreciation tournament I was very happy to be a part. These type things go a long way.
 
i think when it comes to the forking out €100+ for a 5 star course is definitely a thing of the past. Fota island which hosted a few irish opens still commands €85 for a round on a saturday and sunday but have decided that if you book online you can play mid-week for €40 including a dinner, which in my mind is pretty good value. when it comes to courses changing i dont think they should because we all play different course for the challenge each course offers us. i do however support the MORE marshals idea
 
Thainer said:
Tons of great info here guys. What do you think about the length of holes?

Personally, I dont believe Par 3s should play longer than a 170, and par 4s 430.

Par 5s should not be shorter than 550.
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My Opinions:
Par 3s should be 140-180 any longer/shorter and youre looking at some clubs people dont like hitting off the tee.
Par 4s should be 400-430 (I agree with you on that one...500 yard par 4s are so frustrating especially with 2 on the same course)
Par 5s can be short and still play like a 5 but 500 is more reasonable for most people.

I am going to take notes this weekend so I can put my finger on things.
 
It's expensive but for someone who is dedicated and will play almost every weekend you save a lot of money with memberships.
 
I agree with alot of what is being said here, I think the Tee it Forward system needs to adopted by the USGA and implemented on all courses...print it on the scorecards

0-5 Handicaps should play Gold Tees
5-10 Play the Black Tees
10-20 Play the Blue Tees
20+ play the whites
and Red for Women

I watch these guys everyweek that could break a 100 with a sledgehammer that insist on playing from the tips! Have the starter give tee box assingments...you ask each person in the group for a handicap or an average score and assign them to a tee box.

As far as green fees, I agree..I see to many average courses charging $75 or more for a round on the weekends and if you call the night before there are still tons of tee times available

Par 3's - 185 max
Par 4's - 425 max
Par 5's - 575 max

my home course has a 495 yard par 4(505 from the tips) that almost always plays into the wind with water all the way down the left side of the fairway! I have to hit 2 great shots to hit the green and if I happen to par that hole I feel like I made a birdie...it's ridiculous.
 
Golf is fine. Leave it alone. I hate the idea of making it easier. I hate the idea of only letting certain handicaps having to play certain tees. I hate the idea of making OB play like a hazard. I hate the idea of setting limits for length of holes.

All those things can be addressed by individual golfers if they so choose. Price is what it is. Golf is expensive, but there are plenty of low cost alternatives. The market will weed out the those that are too pricey. It's already happening. You want to make the game more popular? Take a kid golfing and show them how cool it is. When I was a kid you were lucky if there were two or three tournaments to play in a Summer. Now State PGA organizations run multiple events every week. And most of them are full, at least here in Cheeseland.

Golf will come back to a level it should be at now that the Tiger and real estate bubbles have burst.

Throw a few more marshals out there, add a couple shorter tees and encourage, don't force, people to play them. Golf will fine.

Kevin
 
lcsmrtn said:
That's the thing, how many teenagers do you know who can afford to golf? Unless mom and pops are footing the bill it's not going to happen.
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This was the issue for me. I started freshmen year in HS and was awful for the first 1 1/2 or so. If I didn't get to play for free because our school paid the green fees I probably would of never started the game and would of quit due to price. Now I work at a golf course so I still get to play for free golf is to damn expensive to the average joe.
 
TripleBogieTim said:
I agree with alot of what is being said here, I think the Tee it Forward system needs to adopted by the USGA and implemented on all courses...print it on the scorecards

0-5 Handicaps should play Gold Tees
5-10 Play the Black Tees
10-20 Play the Blue Tees
20+ play the whites
and Red for Women

I watch these guys everyweek that could break a 100 with a sledgehammer that insist on playing from the tips! Have the starter give tee box assingments...you ask each person in the group for a handicap or an average score and assign them to a tee box.

As far as green fees, I agree..I see to many average courses charging $75 or more for a round on the weekends and if you call the night before there are still tons of tee times available

Par 3's - 185 max
Par 4's - 425 max
Par 5's - 575 max

my home course has a 495 yard par 4(505 from the tips) that almost always plays into the wind with water all the way down the left side of the fairway! I have to hit 2 great shots to hit the green and if I happen to par that hole I feel like I made a birdie...it's ridiculous.
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I disagree with a max 185 par 3. My favorite holes are the 220 par 3s they are changeling but fun. If the max par 3 was 185 I would never have to hit more than a smooth 6 or 7 iron which isn't that tough of a shot.
 
i don't think the courses need to do much... they have different tees for different levels of play that should be fine for any player level. i like playing courses that are challenging for myself and other courses ill play the whites just for fun and to mix it up. But i think players need to be educated on etiquette and rules and how they can pick up the pace of play more than anything else.
 
This is not directed at the teenage poster above me, but when it's said golf is too expensive for teenagers, I wonder how many of these teenagers go to a movie or two a week at $12.00 to $15.00 a ticket and buy a $7.00 soda? How many waste their time with expensive smart phones, or buy $50.00 videos games they play on $400.00 machines.

Golf is no more expensive than a lot of technology stuff kids do. To suggest the game should be made cheaper so kids can do everything makes no sense. Tell the theater owners and video game makers to lower their prices so kids can afford to play golf.

Kevin
 
As a few others have mentioned I'm a proponent of Tee it Forward as well. I played with a gentleman today who hit driver on every par three and could not reach any par four in regulation. Very nice man, but that kind of golf wouldn't be much fun for me.
 
Esox said:
This is not directed at the teenage poster above me, but when it's said golf is too expensive for teenagers, I wonder how many of these teenagers go to a movie or two a week at $12.00 to $15.00 a ticket and buy a $7.00 soda? How many waste their time with expensive smart phones, or buy $50.00 videos games they play on $400.00 machines.

Golf is no more expensive than a lot of technology stuff kids do. To suggest the game should be made cheaper so kids can do everything makes no sense. Tell the theater owners and video game makers to lower their prices so kids can afford to play golf.

Kevin
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I know this wasn't directed at me but while for some people this is true. I don't spend money on really anything except golf and yes I play Xbox from time to time lol. (but i don't pay 60 bucks for games I get them way cheaper like free lol)

I do/ did pay for season tickets to the Pacers but that is really cheap cause no one goes to Pacer games..

I played versus Patrick Rodgers the #2 amateur in the world in HS and if that kid didn't have rich parents he wouldn't even be ranked. All the tourneys the top flight juniors go to I could never afford. Last year I tried to qualify for the open and jesus that cost me $300 bucks for just that(which i paid for out of pocket). I mean it paid off for him he is at Stanford and gonna be on tour very soon. But kids like that have a huge advantage over players like me who dont have unlimited funds to travel the junior circuit.
 
bakb said:
I know this wasn't directed at me but while for some people this is true. I don't spend money on really anything except golf and yes I play Xbox from time to time lol. (but i don't pay 60 bucks for games I get them way cheaper)

I played versus Patrick Rodgers the #2 amateur in the world in HS and if that kid didn't have rich parents he wouldn't even be ranked. All the tourneys the top flight juniors go to I could never afford. Last year I tried to qualify for the open and jesus that cost me $300 bucks for just that(which i paid for out of pocket). I mean it paid off for him but kids like that have a huge advantage over players life me who dont have unlimited funds to travel the junior circuit.
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While that's certainly true to an extent, it doesn't mean you can't become a fabulous player hitting balls in a field. The AJGA is no doubt a rich kids circuit, but the events I'm talking about cost less than the greens fees on most of the courses on which they're played. My daughter played in an event hosted by the WI State PGA Junior Section on the Irish Course at Whistling Straits this last Summer. $40.00. The greens fees are $200. And she got a nice lunch. The typical State PGA entry fee is $30.00.

The whole world of junior competitive golf is not comprised of the AJGA. The fee for my daughter's junior membership at our semi-private club is $375. Unlimited golf, unlimited range time. To me that's cheap as hell for six months of golf. Are the course and range the greatest? Nope, but that doesn't mean she can't become a fine player utilizing them. In fact it probably toughens her up. Of course prices will vary state to state and course to course, but there are ways for juniors to play golf at a reasonable price.

Look at you, you got a job at a golf course. Good for you.

Kevin
 
Basically golf is an expensive sport, so is skiing and ice hockey, but that doesn't mean that everyone who has excelled at it is rich. If you want to golf more make a couple of sacrifices.
 
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