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Concerns Regarding Local Course

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Dirtydawg67
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
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Location
Colonial Beach, VA
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Hi THP

I have been a member for 4 years now at my local course. The first 3 years, I bought a $300 "mini membership" that got me 30% off each round. This year, after talking with the owner, I went with an all inclusive package for $1500 that was good 7 days/week after 12pm. The full membership is $2k all day everyday. I have played a lot of golf there and have seen it through some good and bad conditions, mostly weather related, but this summer it has taken a turn for the worse. They lost 3 greens this summer and many spots on the other greens. I am perfectly fine with this and coming from a business that is weather dependent, I understand completely. The greens are back to playable, but are still in really rough shape. I've compared them to other courses that went through the same turmoils this summer, but other courses are back to 100% or very close to it. The greens not being "maintained" are only one of my gripes.

This summer my course offered packages through Groupon. They sold the first one right around Father's day and then again in August. You could buy all day golf for 2 people valid 7 days/week including a cart. This also included range balls (which I have to pay for if I want to warm up) and a beer for each person. This package was $39 and had a limit of 5 per person. Weekend rates at this course are $49 before 1 pm. After looking at the Groupon ads, the course sold 1840+ of these packages. I'm all for a good deal and think this is a great one. I probably would have bought some if I weren't a member. I do have a very big problem with this though....they can play for a lot cheaper than the members. Am I wrong to think this way?

So, with over 1800 packages being sold, this brings up quite a few issues. You've sold a lot of cheap rounds, where the course is not making much money at all (I know the exact number, and it's peanuts). The course is already under a ton of stress from the hot,dry summer and now you are adding a lot of ball marks, cleat marks, and carts. I realize the bottom line is to make money, and I'm fine with that, but as play expands so does the maintenance. The course went on weird mowing schedules this summer and some fairways were going a while without a mow. It looked kind of ridiculous to see weeds and sprigs of grass that were 6" tall in a fairway. I also shouldn't have flyers from the fairway.

Pace of play has gotten to be brutal. I haven't been playing the course much at all, but the few times I've showed up on the weekends I have either left or stuck through some ridiculous rounds of golf. They have also run into issues with not having enough carts. I got the last cart yesterday afternoon and only got it because a tee time didn't show up. Apparently the day before they had several irrate groups since they didn't have carts for them and the groupon ad clearly says "with cart".

Another thing I have noticed is that I don't recognize anyone. Groups that normally would go out in the afternoons on weekends are no longer there. I played yesterday with a buddy and there were only 2 other people there that weren't from Groupon. That says a lot to me. The locals and members pay the bills, the guys looking for the quick deal won't be back.

I won't be renewing my membership and neither will the core group of guys I play golf with. 1 was a $2k member, 1 was a $300 mini member, and 3 others were weekday members @ $1200 a piece. I haven't had a chance to talk with other members, since they apparently aren't there, to see how they feel. I've spoken with a lot of the employees and they tell me they get complaints all the time about course conditions and they are frustrated as well. I think the course may have bitten off a little more than they could chew, and I think they may be realizing this. The marshal told me yesterday that they think they are now worried the may start losing members over the groupon deal.

So, I have a question....

I've thought about emailing the owner since he is NEVER at the course. The same owner that forwarded me emails between he and the super about course improvements that they upcoming last spring when I was on the fence about giving him $1500. I don't care about the money, but I just feel like I was taken advantage of. I feel bad for the guys who spent $300 to get 30% off a round and then people who went on Groupon can play all day for $19.50/person. I think I am going to email the owner and tell him all of my issues I have and that I won't be renewing my membership. It kind of sucks since the course is a 10 minute drive and now I will have to drive 40 miles, but I guess it is what it is. Has anyone experienced anything like this with a home course? I don't like to complain/whine and I have managed to keep my mouth shut, but I think I have reached my tipping point. Is this just life and I need to get over it?

Thanks for reading!
 
I dont blame you...that is really lame of them to do. I cant believe they didnt consider what that would do to people that actually pay to play there.
 
In no way should customers be treated better than members, EVER. Id get on this right away, and demand a refund.
 
As a paying member that will not be renewing that membership, let them know why and what led to your decision to not renew.
 
I think emailing him is a smart thing to do. He probably won't care. Sorry dude, I hate to hear about that.
 
I think they should have limited those GroupOn's so that it did not completely take over the course. I don't blame you at all and would likely feel the same way. I only pay $150/month so we have similar type clubs so I completely understand where you are coming from.

I would definitely email the owner and tell him what is going on. Perhaps he will make changes to correct but I doubt it considering he is never around.

What really sucks is the travel involved to play at a different course.


Tappin' from my iPad!
 
Do you think they may have some financial issues? Do you think they have an incompetent superintendent?

My course went through some pretty serious condition issues after flooding in the Summer of 2010. The greens did not completely recover until late this last season. Some of that was the Super's fault, and he's been replaced. They also run a ton of specials and host a ton of outings. But pace of play is rarely a serious issue. I fear there may be some financial issues. We pay about 3K for the family so similar to you.

So we have some of the same issues as you, but one thing we have going for us is the members get first priority. They run events every single weekend with Saturday men's and ladies' clubs, and Sunday member events. They will not let a member out in the middle of an outing, but members run all over the course any other time. I can run out and start on any hole I want if the tee is full. So though it has it's problems, the members absolutely come first. The junior program is also great, and my daughter is treated like any other member, not some kid.

So the good outweighs the bad. If any of the good things would start to fade, I/We would be gone.

That's the question you need to ask yourself. Does the good outweigh the bad?

Kevin
 
I would absolutely contact them and share some of yours and other members concerns. I would suggest trying to come up with some proactive solutions and not just make it a negative complaint. I'm sure they aren't happy about the struggling conditions and are just trying to find a way to get folks on the course but it should never be at the expense of those that have provided long term support.
 
war.eagle said:
As a paying member that will not be renewing that membership, let them know why and what led to your decision to not renew.
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This was my thought as well. I would find another place to play. Posts like this make me happy I live where and I live, and play where I play. Things are so different for me than what I read in the opening post. I pay much less than most here, and while our course is not Augusta National, it is in very good playable condition year in, year out. I feel very lucky.
 
I'm really sorry to hear that DD and like most have said here, email the owner, explain why you won't be renewing and add the fact that you are now going to drive the 40 miles out of your way, just to play at a course that treats you how you should be treated.

You are in no way overreacting and I think the only way the course will learn is by their members leaving. Perhaps if enough of you leave, things will change and they can earn your business back.
 
I would certainly let them know of your concerns, but I would leave out any mention of not renewing your membership. Give them a chance to make it right and use your leverage as a member. If you have to drive 40 MILES to golf somewhere else then I would be going out of my way to work things out at the place that's 10 minutes from your home. People make mistakes and bad decisions, they may have realized that they made one. Perhaps with the course packed with the Groupon people they weren't able to maintain the course as they normally would. If they don't respond to your satisfaction then you can mention that you (and others you know) won't be renewing for the reasons you mentioned.
 
That really sucks. I would talk to them and see what happens from there.
 
Sorry to hear it DD, a ton of courses are jumping through hoops right now to jump start memberships and alienating their loyal memberships. Its dog eat right now on the course unless you are way in advance financially as a corporation. You can let it be known, but honestly these guys are going to hear it either way they go.
 
Esox said:
Do you think they may have some financial issues? Do you think they have an incompetent superintendent?

My course went through some pretty serious condition issues after flooding in the Summer of 2010. The greens did not completely recover until late this last season. Some of that was the Super's fault, and he's been replaced. They also run a ton of specials and host a ton of outings. But pace of play is rarely a serious issue. I fear there may be some financial issues. We pay about 3K for the family so similar to you.

So we have some of the same issues as you, but one thing we have going for us is the members get first priority. They run events every single weekend with Saturday men's and ladies' clubs, and Sunday member events. They will not let a member out in the middle of an outing, but members run all over the course any other time. I can run out and start on any hole I want if the tee is full. So though it has it's problems, the members absolutely come first. The junior program is also great, and my daughter is treated like any other member, not some kid.

So the good outweighs the bad. If any of the good things would start to fade, I/We would be gone.

That's the question you need to ask yourself. Does the good outweigh the bad?

Kevin
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I think financial issues could be a problem, but I'm not 100%. Employees do spill some info to me and another guy that they probably shouldn't, but I would say that things are a little tight. The course is never in great shape and I can only think of one week in the past year where I could compliment the greens. Most of the time they are shag carpet slow, but roll half way decent. I think the biggest problem with the greens is lack of air. The course is heavily wooded and they don't have any blowers or fans. The super could be incompetent, but I don't know. There are a lot of things that go on that are half ass at best, but he always says his hands are tied. The course used to have a lot of Saturday scrambles, but they were sparse this season. It seems like another course (one of the 2 that I'm debating on joining) has picked up a lot of the tournaments. The only good thing is convenience, and I am prepared to drive 80 miles round trip next season.
 
Thanks for the input everyone. I will be emailing him soon and putting everything out on the table. I have a buddy who is disgruntled and has emailed him a fair amount, but he has a reputation of being a complainer. I've seen most of the emails and the one reply the owner sent. He pretty much said the right things, but I have yet to see any action. I have always been nice with the owner and my thoughts may carry some weight or at least get a response.
 
Wow DD, that sucks for the members. Our course has been contacted by Groupon several times but we have said no so far. They keep 1/2 of the money so your course probably didn't make much if most of those customers don't plan to come back. I hope you get a good response to your letter.
 
I was in a kind of similar situation , and I chose to leave the course.

In Augusta there is a course that I won't name that for years was semi-private, but in a rather exclusive way. It was a really nice play to play. I joined there in the mid-80's, as it was transitioning to a more public venue. It still had a strong membership, maybe 350 members, when it was bought by a retired Northern doctor, who brought in his son to manage the operation. Bottom line was, his son was an obnoxious jerk who didn't care if he offended the membership, expecting public play to keep them profitable. The membership dwindled and dwindled, but for a while the public play kept things floating. The final straw for me was when they added a restaurant minimum, which wasn't that high but the snack bar didn't count toward it, and the restaurant food just wasn't very good. I think it was a final straw for others as well - when I left membership had fallen to around 140, and it wasn't too long after I left that the ownership changed hands. That was 20 years ago, and while the course is still a pretty good track, it has always struggled since.

The bottom line is, if a club has members, the members absolutely have to come first, and customer service remains a key for any business that provides not one of life's necessities, but one of it's pleasures. DD, I hope your club learns that lesson, but it sounds like they are slow on the uptake. Good luck finding a golf home.
 
KellyBo said:
Wow DD, that sucks for the members. Our course has been contacted by Groupon several times but we have said no so far. They keep 1/2 of the money so your course probably didn't make much if most of those customers don't plan to come back. I hope you get a good response to your letter.
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Yeah, hopefully your course continues to say no. The Groupon ad was listed for the Wash DC area, which is almost 2 hours away. They got a lot of play from people who drove over an hour just for a good deal. I wouldn't think they would come back due to the course conditions and the drive. It might have generated some quick cash, but I would think the profit is VERY slim.
 
DD if you are thinking about joining where I think you are.....be careful. I've heard a chapter 11 is being discussed.
 
KellyBo said:
Wow DD, that sucks for the members. Our course has been contacted by Groupon several times but we have said no so far. They keep 1/2 of the money so your course probably didn't make much if most of those customers don't plan to come back. I hope you get a good response to your letter.
Click to expand...

Dirtydawg67 said:
Yeah, hopefully your course continues to say no. The Groupon ad was listed for the Wash DC area, which is almost 2 hours away. They got a lot of play from people who drove over an hour just for a good deal. I wouldn't think they would come back due to the course conditions and the drive. It might have generated some quick cash, but I would think the profit is VERY slim.
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I hate it for you Dd, I would be very tempted to write the email but to leave anyway, seems like you have heard promises before. Maybe in a year or 2 they will have won back some of the faith of members, but I doubt it. Also from what KB said above, the profit margin was very slim or even a loss leader with the course hoping to sell accessories, food and drink. Sounds like a bad situation that is just going to get worse.
 
Sorry to hear of this DD. The course was probably counting on not many of the purchasers to show thus agreeing with Groupon. Hopefully with your e-mail you'll receive some much needed feedback from the management concerning this issue and find out where they stand. Good Luck
 
Johnboy12.5 said:
DD if you are thinking about joining where I think you are.....be careful. I've heard a chapter 11 is being discussed.
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Damn. It's between there and Hobb's Hole, but I would prefer "there" since it's usually quiet. That sucks if that happens, but I could see it happening since the course is never busy.
 
if i was you i would def e mail the owner and tell him why you are not satisfied and upset. Maybe he will give you a partial refund or some free rounds. hope he sees how messed up this is and does something to fix it.
 
Doesn't your club have a Board of Directors ?

You could go in person to the next board meeting. Take your buddies with you, the more the better, and put it to the board. Let them understand what is happening to the members and what that means to the longevity of the business.

Hate that you are experiencing this, Best of Luck to you with whatever you decide to do.
 
Consider the following, you play there because it's convenient and you enjoy this game. To the owner this is a business. Do I think you're wrong most definitely no. The owner is only concerned with making a profit. Cut the greens every other day because of the cost of fuel, use inferior fertilizer on the greens and fairways. Cutting costs and raising income. If you don't renew he's out $1500, how much does he gain if he runs another groupon? Also the sales in the pro shop from all this extra traffic. Most of the time accountants run the company not the owner.

I live out side of Baltimore and I've been trying to decide which course program I want to join, there is a county and a city group of courses. I'm concerned about the same issues you're talking about.
 
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